Executive Orders

@McGentrix,

You and Baldimo seem to making two different, and contradictory, arguments.

1) On the one hand you are arguing that women aren't protesting anything (which clearly they are).

2) On the other hand you are arguing that women are wrong about the issues they are protesting about (which is clearly irrelevant since ones right to protest has nothing to do with whether they are "right" or "wrong").

It seems obvious to me that the women protesting have clear and fairly consistent opinions about rights that they believe are being threatened to the stated positions of the Trump administration.

I think this answers Baldimo's question (right Baldimo)?

Whether you disagree with these women is another discussion.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Answer the question. You infantile.

McGentrix wrote:

Not to long ago, A2K was abuzz about how America should be a Democracy. I am pretty sure that if abortion were brought up for a vote, the majority of American's would most likely vote for making it illegal.

This is one of the reasons that we are not a democracy.

Which part is giving you the trouble CI?

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

I think it is a bunch liberals still whining about Trump winning the election. It's grandstanding and not much more.

2 Replies

@McGentrix,

"Most likely" is not factual. Who is the one having difficulty with English?

0 Replies

@McGentrix,

Quote:

I think it is a bunch liberals still whining about Trump winning the election. It's grandstanding and not much more.

And your point is?

It seems to me that these protests, especially given their scale, are a pretty potent political symbol. But whther it is seen as "whining" is a matter of your political perspective.

The impact of these protests are yet to be seen. But it is clear that a significant part of the American public is outraged enough to get off their asses and send this message.

1 Reply

@McGentrix,

Not grandstanding. When have you seen the National Mall so empty for a inaugeration? When have you seen a worldwide demonstration against a US president other than Trump?

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

And your point is?

My point wasn't obvious? It was a nice march against nothing. It was designed to be nothing more than a protest against the guy that won the Presidency.

At least the locals made some cash.

2 Replies

@McGentrix,

I had the mistaken idea that you understood the Constitution.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Can you be more specific?

0 Replies

@McGentrix,

You are contradicting yourself. A protest against the guy who won the presidency is not a protest against nothing.

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

Quote:

No, I can't. The right to have a safe and legal abortion is not mentioned in the Constitution.

Neither is the right to drive a car.

1 Reply

@RABEL222,

RABEL222 wrote:

Quote:
No, I can't. The right to have a safe and legal abortion is not mentioned in the Constitution.

Neither is the right to drive a car.

Driving a car is not a right...It is a privilege... Given by the state.

The depth of your knowledge is frightening.

1 Reply

@giujohn,

nice answer +1

0 Replies

Both gooey and Mac are d&@pes. Quelle suprise.

0 Replies

@McGentrix,

Quote:

I am pretty sure that if abortion were brought up for a vote, the majority of American's would most likely vote for making it illegal.

First thing, "abortion" itself is not something that is ever going to be voted on.

Quote:

It is now 43 years since Roe v. Wade came down. After an initial 10-year period of surprisingly passive acceptance of the decision as the law of the land, the right—particularly the evangelical right—in the 1980s discovered its usefulness as a wedge issue. This has led to a hardening of positions on both sides. The right has done an effective job of dishonestly presenting its viewpoint as that of a growing majority, while using dishonest political coinages such as “partial-birth abortion,” and defining advocates of a woman’s right to choose as supporters of “abortion on demand.”

Looking at the polling data back over decades, one quickly sees that asking people to self-identify as either “pro-choice” or “pro-life” is a fool’s errand. But one can come to some solid conclusions about public opinion on this complex subject if one breaks responses regarding the desired legality of abortion into not two groups but four:

Those who favor abortion being:
• Always legal
• Legal under most circumstances
• Illegal in most cases
• Always illegal

Over the years, Gallup has found little variance in support for the two camps—when the first two categories are combined and weighed against the combination of the second two. Thus, Pew Research found that 57 percent of Americans polled in 1996 and 56 percent in 2016 said abortion should be legal either “Always” or “In Most Cases,” while those who responded that it should be either “Illegal Always” or “In Most Circumstances” totaled 40 percent in 1996 and 41 percent now. Thus the pro-choice camp has maintained a steady and solid advantage. Even the heated topic of federal funding of Planned Parenthood, despite the intense recent efforts of its opponents, gets a 58 percent thumbs-up.

source

2 Replies

@hightor,

Quote:

A Gallup poll conducted in May 2009 indicates that a minority of Americans, 37%, believe that abortion should be legal in any or most circumstances, compared to 41% in May 2008. Similarly, an April 2009 Pew Research Center poll showed a softening of support for legal abortion compared to the previous years of polling. People who said they support abortion in all or most cases dropped from 54% in 2008 to 46% in 2009.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roe_v._Wade#Reception

0 Replies

@hightor,

This article, directly from Gallup itself, shows that as of May, 2015, 56% were in the "always/most cases illegal" camp, while only 42% were in the "opposite" camp.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/183434/americans-choose-pro-choice-first-time-seven-years.aspx

Better to get your "facts" from the source itself rather than from an author in a left-wing rag whose "hope is that this presentation of the underlying views of a majority of Americans will enable readers to oppose the false prophets of further accommodation with the right..."

Apparently 23% who answered "illegal in most cases" still identified themselves as "pro-choice," but their answer to the specific questions are not what the above author claims, unless I'm reading it wrong.

It's amusing that 4% of those who said it should always be legal called themselves "pro-life," and 4% who said "always illegal" called themselves "pro-choice."

1 Reply

@layman,

Wait a second, cheeseman, this is from the Gallup poll you refer to:

Quote:

Americans divide 50% "pro-choice," 44% "pro-life" on abortion
Majority of women, 54%, now pro-choice, vs. 46% of men
Pro-choice ID among Democrats has swelled since 2001

Here's what we can agree on — anti-choice/pro-death sides are very close. But when we add the 36% of all adults who believe it should be legal "in only a few circumstances" with those who would allow the procedure in any or all cases the total number is 78%. That's a pretty large proportion of the population who accept the practice, some of them, albeit, grudgingly.

When we go back to the near 50/50 split (which varies up and down on each side) you might want to ask if such a division actually merits making the procedure illegal. As far as I know, mandatory or involuntary abortions don't seem to be a problem. So it's hard to see what social benefit would derive from forcing women to bear unwanted children or suffer through a life-threatening pregnancy (it happens sometimes). Any "moral" position by the anti-choice crowd is somewhat undercut by the number of abortion opponents who would still allow it "in only a few circumstances". That fetus might have been fathered by your uncle or a serial rapist but if the "sanctity of life" is paramount it would be morally inconsistent to allow conditional abortions.

Help me here, cheeseman!

1 Reply

@hightor,

hightor wrote:

Wait a second, cheeseman, this is from the Gallup poll you refer to:

Quote:

Americans divide 50% "pro-choice," 44% "pro-life" on abortion
Majority of women, 54%, now pro-choice, vs. 46% of men
Pro-choice ID among Democrats has swelled since 2001

Here's what we can agree on....

Your own story, and, on top of that, my observations about the poll, reveal how worthless it is to rely on self-identification as either pro-life or pro-choice as indicative of anything.

That all you got? Just concede that you and your story misrepresented the truth, and be done with it, eh?

I think we can "agree on" what the poll actually said (assuming that you can read), which was the issue.

1 Reply

@layman,

Help me, cheesy — how did the story "misrepresent the truth"? More people favor allowing abortion than oppose it — 50-44.

1 Reply

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