6
   

GPUs outperform supercomputers at solving quantum mechanic equations

 
 
Reply Thu 7 Jul, 2016 10:46 am
No need for supercomputers


Quote:
Russian scientists suggest a PC to solve complex problems tens of times faster than with massive supercomputers

A group of physicists from the Skobeltsyn Institute of Nuclear Physics, the Lomonosov Moscow State University, has learned to use a personal computer for calculations of complex equations of quantum mechanics, usually solved with help of supercomputers. This PC does the job much faster. An article about the results of the work has been published in the journal Computer Physics Communications.

Senior researchers Vladimir Pomerantcev and Olga Rubtsova, working under the guidance of Professor Vladimir Kukulin (SINP MSU), were able to use on an ordinary desktop PC with GPU to solve complicated integral equations of quantum mechanics -- previously solved only with the powerful, expensive supercomputers. According to Vladimir Kukulin, the personal computer does the job much faster: in 15 minutes it is doing the work requiring normally 2-3 days of the supercomputer time.

The equations in question were formulated in the '60s by the Russian mathematician Ludwig Faddeev. The equations describe the scattering of a few quantum particles, i.e., represent a quantum mechanical analog of the Newtonian theory of the three body systems. As the result, the whole field of quantum mechanics called "physics of few-body systems" appeared soon after this.


Is the problem with supercomputers that they're not programmed appropriately to do the computations required for those quantum mechanic calculations? Would it be possible to tweak a supercomputer to run like a GPU?
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jul, 2016 11:12 am
@InfraBlue,
It's probably hard to get funding for a billion dollar graphics card.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 7 Jul, 2016 12:25 pm

Huh?

Is this single cheap NVIDIA graphics card going to be faster than a supercomputer that is composed of tens of thousands of more advanced NVIDIA graphics cards?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jul, 2016 12:31 pm
@InfraBlue,
This doesn't seem very surprising to me. Hackers have been using GPUs to do things like hack Passwords and generate Bitcoin for years.

I don't know what you mean by "tweak" a supercomputer. If you gave a team of engineers $10 million and told them to develop the fastest machine possible to solve these problems... the would certainly come up with something much better than a GPU... it would be interesting what the best design would be.
Tes yeux noirs
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jul, 2016 12:42 pm
oralloy wrote:
Is this single cheap NVIDIA graphics card going to be faster than a supercomputer that is composed of tens of thousands of more advanced NVIDIA graphics cards?

No.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jul, 2016 12:45 pm
HA! GPUs crunch massive amounts of numbers at an extremely fast rates to render video game graphics. The equations used in quantum mechanics are usually represented as graphs, anyway, so it's difficult to believe that supercomputers haven't been designed to handle these and other computations accordingly.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jul, 2016 12:47 pm
@oralloy,
Apparently, it is.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jul, 2016 12:48 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

This doesn't seem very surprising to me. Hackers have been using GPUs to do things like hack Passwords and generate Bitcoin for years.

I don't know what you mean by "tweak" a supercomputer. If you gave a team of engineers $10 million and told them to develop the fastest machine possible to solve these problems... the would certainly come up with something much better than a GPU... it would be interesting what the best design would be.


Why couldn't they have done so with the supercomputers they've already created?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jul, 2016 01:03 pm
@InfraBlue,
It is hard to speak in the abstract without knowing detail about the specific problems and the hardware involved.

Maybe these supercomputers weren't designed with this class of problem in mind (but obviously I without the specifics all we can do is speculate).

I am just guessing based on things I have worked on before... I am guessing that the GPU does parallel processing (where many computations can happen at the same time) much better than the supercomputer.
Tes yeux noirs
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jul, 2016 01:17 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
It is hard to speak in the abstract without knowing detail about the specific problems and the hardware involved.

Exactly. My phone would give a 1980s supercomputer a run for its money.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jul, 2016 01:36 pm
@Tes yeux noirs,
Tes yeux noirs wrote:

maxdancona wrote:
It is hard to speak in the abstract without knowing detail about the specific problems and the hardware involved.

Exactly. My phone would give a 1980s supercomputer a run for its money.

Thanks, I hadn't considered obsolescence.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jul, 2016 02:51 pm
@InfraBlue,
The more important issue is hardware design.

There are very different ways to design computer hardware that are good for different tasks. My suspicion is that the key for these problems it that parallelism (the ability to do lots of calculations at the same time) is important. GPUs are by nature designed to do parallel processing since each pixel and each polygon can be calculated independently.

0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jul, 2016 03:19 pm

Point of information: Supercomputers for some years now have been composed of lots of GPUs linked together.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Jul, 2016 09:32 pm
@oralloy,
What supercomputers use GPUs?

The largest supercomputers have always used CPUs. Usually Intel processors.

Quote:


Top five processor generations

Intel Xeon E5 (Haswell) – 221
Intel Xeon E5 (IvyBridge) – 118
Intel Xeon E5 (SandyBridge) – 66
Intel Xeon E5 (Broadwell) – 21
Power BQC – 19

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOP500
Tes yeux noirs
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Jul, 2016 01:38 am
@parados,
Quote:
Re: oralloy (Post 6219568)
What supercomputers use GPUs?

The largest supercomputers have always used CPUs. Usually Intel processors.

Currently, the world's fastest supercomputers are either being built with GPUs integrated or being upgraded with GPUs. This has been going on since around 2008.
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  0  
Reply Fri 8 Jul, 2016 07:45 am
@InfraBlue,
A quantum circuit, although possible, is (publicly) a decade away - It will be an instantaneous delivery of info/data over any distance. And will make "C" (light speed) look like a slug crossing the Sahara (Were it measurable).
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Fri 8 Jul, 2016 08:44 am
@mark noble,
This is nonsense (to anyone who understands physics).

A quantum circuit will not be an "instantaneous delivery of info/data over any distance". Light speed will still apply.

Any reputable physicist will tell you this... for example http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/about-us/137-physics/general-physics/particles-and-quantum-physics/810-does-quantum-entanglement-imply-faster-than-light-communication-intermediate
mark noble
 
  0  
Reply Fri 8 Jul, 2016 08:45 am
@maxdancona,
Yes it will.
Want the link?
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Fri 8 Jul, 2016 08:48 am
@mark noble,
From a reputable physicist... yes, I want the link.

I am guessing that if your link is from an reputable source, then you are misinterpreting it. But, let's see it.

mark noble
 
  0  
Reply Fri 8 Jul, 2016 08:50 am
@maxdancona,
Do you want the link, or not?
 

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