Atheism has finally found its spiritual leader

@Glennn,

I don't think you have taken the religious spin off of the "law of cause and effect". It is not a scientific concept. It is just something that you believe because you want to believe just like any other religious concept.

I also don't think it is valid. There were perfectly good, decent people living as Native Americans. They were living here. Now they are gone. There is no justice here... the people who drove them out and killed them (that would be us) prospered.

There are many other examples... babies get sick and die even when no one (not them and not their parents) did any thing wrong.

Religion meets a human need to believe that life is fair, that good things happen to good people and that everything works out in the end. Real life doesn't work that way.

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@maxdancona,

That's also been my contention about religion. Why would a god kill innocent babies who have done no wrong, and lost the gift of life.
Religious people say god has his reasons. Well, as a human, I disagree with that kind of wholesale killing of innocent people.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

So there is no such thing as cause and effect? I asked you before if you believe that there can be an effect without a cause, or a cause without an effect. You didn't answer me then. You can do so now.

Quote:

babies get sick and die even when no one (not them and not their parents) did any thing wrong.

And you're wondering if I believe that the disease will be punished? No, I don't believe that. You've chosen to believe that when I say cause and effect I really mean crime and punishment (justice), even though I have never implied that. I asked you why you did that, too. You didn't answer me then. You can do so now.

Quote:

There were perfectly good, decent people living as Native Americans. They were living here. Now they are gone. There is no justice here... the people who drove them out and killed them (that would be us) prospered.

Here, you are again addressing me as if I said that cause and effect means
crime and punishment. You need to stop doing that, unless you can show me where I said that.

Also, you are lumping all the people in the U.S. as the offenders of the Native Americans. I didn't do anything to them. Neither did most U.S. citizens. The ones who did make decisions and who did take actions to offend Native Americans have their reward. Their life is its own reward. You are simply falling into the same trap as many other one-dimensional thinkers in that you think that money and privilege equals happiness and wellbeing. You weren't inside their heads after these things were done. Yet you say that they prospered. You didn't even know them.

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@Glennn,

Glennn wrote:

I don't believe in karma; I recognize it as the law of cause and effect.

So you don't believe in it, you recognize it. Understood.

This law of cause and effect isn't scientific, either, though.

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@InfraBlue,

You know exactly what I mean. I'll make it shorter for you. What others call karma, I recognize as the law of cause and effect.

So you believe that effects occur without any cause?

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@Glennn,

Glennn wrote:

You know exactly what I mean. I'll make it shorter for you. What others call karma, I recognize as the law of cause and effect.

So you believe that effects occur without any cause?

Not physically speaking, no, but you're referring to morality, e.g. crime and punishment. The idea of moral cause and effect isn't scientific.

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@InfraBlue,

Where did I refer to crime and punishment and morals??

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@Glennn,

Glennn wrote:

Where did I refer to crime and punishment and morals??

You didn't mention it directly, but you did refer to thievery and your changed ways.

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@InfraBlue,

Quote:

You didn't mention it directly

Didn't I just say that??

Quote:

but you did refer to thievery and your changed ways.

Explain how you interpret my mention of my being a thief and becoming disgusted with myself as my belief in crime and punishment, or moral cause and effect.

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@Glennn,

You mentioned that the thieving crowd you ran with started to profit at your expense, i.e. that they thieved from you. I took it to mean that you saw that as the effect of your thievery, i.e. your thievery was the cause and your loss was the effect.

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Hi.

'RELIGION'.

'Anything done, or aspired to 'routinely'. - Wake-up, wash, clean teeth, poo, eat, go to work, come home, eat, go to bed, rinse&repeat.

'Fixed-deitic-religion' - Same - With a 3rd-party "GOD/Deity-directive" at the helm of said process/es.

You're all 'sucked-into' your own 'aspirations', by indoctrinatable-sources.
WE ARE ALL GOD!

WHEN YOU GET BACK TO WHERE WE ALL ORIGINATE, I AM GOING TO AWARD YOU - THE SUPERULTIMATE "I TOLD YOU SO"!
But, for now - Do as thou (archaic) so choose.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

Quote:

You mentioned that the thieving crowd you ran with started to profit at your expense, i.e. that they thieved from you. I took it to mean that you saw that as the effect of your thievery, i.e. your thievery was the cause and your loss was the effect.

Yes, I became a victim of people like myself. And what else could I reasonably expect in the company of such people? With thieves as friends, who needs enemies, right? There was nothing extraordinary in the process. It was simple cause and effect.

1 Reply

@mark noble,

mark noble wrote:

...WE ARE ALL GOD!...

With the certainty derived from the divinity of the revealed truth, and as the First Apostle, it is written that only Glennn is Goddd. It is further written that the only way to serve our Goddd is to serve Chumly your savior, else the lake of eternal fire awaits.

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@Chumly,

Where's that lake?

1 Reply

@Glennn,

Glennn wrote:

Quote:
You mentioned that the thieving crowd you ran with started to profit at your expense, i.e. that they thieved from you. I took it to mean that you saw that as the effect of your thievery, i.e. your thievery was the cause and your loss was the effect.

Yes, I became a victim of people like myself. And what else could I reasonably expect in the company of such people? With thieves as friends, who needs enemies, right? There was nothing extraordinary in the process. It was simple cause and effect.

The way you described it, though, is that your own thievery led to your victimization by your thieving friends. What led to your victimization, actually, was that you made it easy for thieves to steal from you because you ran with them. Had you run with saints, I doubt they would have stolen from you, regardless of your own thieving.

This is a good illustration of how ascribing cause and effect to situations such as this is subjective.

1 Reply

@Chumly,

Are you merely posting for attention's sake?
Mis-spelling God (Goddd) is ridiculous - Seeing as you, typically, have naff-all to add to 'philosophical' bases.

Pointless-response-pending, I presume...?

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

Why would a god kill innocent babies who have done no wrong, and lost the gift of life.
Religious people say god has his reasons. Well, as a human, I disagree with that kind of wholesale killing of innocent people.

For someone who does not even believe in God, you are getting pretty indignant about the actions of a being who does not even exist.

Lost the gift of life? Gift? From who?
Innocent?

I dunno, it all sounds pretty conflicted to me.

1 Reply

@Leadfoot,

It's for people like you who believe in a god that has many conflicts all by itself. They are easily found on many web sites.
Start with "thou shalt not kill." God did the world flood and killed many innocent people; that's a contradiction.
FYI, scientists have declared there never was a world flood.

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@cicerone imposter,

Awww... You do all this for us poor deluded souls?

I must petition to have you seated up there with Glennn, Chumly and the Holy Toast. Or at least granted sainthood.

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@InfraBlue,

Quote:

What led to your victimization, actually, was that you made it easy for thieves to steal from you because you ran with them.

Yes. Why you don't see the cause and effect mechanism in that scenario is a mystery to me. It wasn't by chance that I was taken advantage of by them. There was a cause and that was the effect.

Quote:

Had you run with saints, I doubt they would have stolen from you, regardless of your own thieving.

No, they certainly would not have stolen from me. You're missing the point that being a thief caused me to be repelled by saintly types, or even just honest people. I had nothing in common with them; we held different values, and I did not prefer their company. Hence I was drawn to my own kind. And true to their nature, they took from me.

Quote:

This is a good illustration of how ascribing cause and effect to situations such as this is subjective.

Here, you are telling me that, where behavior is concerned, there is no cause and effect relationship between what I do, and the results of what I do.

2 Replies

Atheism has finally found its spiritual leader

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