6
   

700 Inconsistencies in the Bible

 
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Wed 13 Apr, 2016 11:48 pm
@onevoice,
onevoice, I have been given no revelation about the creation of woman from Adam's rib. As you implied, women are a mystery to men :-).
Quote:
So God had created Adam, then set him in the garden of Eden, to tend to and keep it. He did this prior to creating the animals, so Adam truly was alone. No birds singing. No squirrels furiously searching for nuts. No horses grazing in the fields around. No cows mooing in the distance... You get the picture...

I see what you are saying, I just cannot reconcile that with Genesis 1. Day 5 ended with God having created all the animals but no mention of man until the next 'day'. I'm not saying it isn't possible, but are you saying day 5 and 6 in Genesis below are out of order? It just seems logical that God would have made Mankind last.
Quote:
Genesis 1:20-30KJV
[20] And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. [21] And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. [22] And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. [23] And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

. [24] And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. [25] And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

. [26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. [27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28] And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. [29] And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. [30] And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

[31] And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
mark noble
 
  1  
Thu 14 Apr, 2016 08:30 am
@onevoice,
Apparently - In 2031, they unearth the 'Ark OC' in Ethopia and the greek writings upon it dissolve all 'abrahamic-based' cults.
Guess we'll just have to wait and see.
0 Replies
 
onevoice
 
  1  
Fri 15 Apr, 2016 08:22 am
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
onevoice, I have been given no revelation about the creation of woman from Adam's rib. As you implied, women are a mystery to men :-).


Here's a revelation for ya:

God saved the best for last, as far as Creation goes... Women! Very Happy Bwaaaaaahahaha! Joking! Only joking!

Quote:
Genesis 1. Day 5 ended with God having created all the animals but no mention of man until the next 'day'. I'm not saying it isn't possible, but are you saying day 5 and 6 in Genesis below are out of order? It just seems logical that God would have made Mankind last.



Honestly, this has perplexed me a bit. You are correct in that God did create the animals prior to Adam. However, I do believe the animals were named prior to Eve's creation. God knew He hadn't created a suitable mate for Adam. I still believe this was for the purpose of teaching Adam how to use the creative power within himself, and to show him none of those creatures would be a good mate for him. But I've been stuck on this verse:

Quote:
Gen 1:27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.


There is a separation there, do you see it? Which points to a seemly apparent "inconsistency"... In some people's eyes... But even the wording sometimes can make the biggest difference in it's interpretation. I don't know about anyone else, but I can tell you this... The English language... Blah... Complicated... Complex... Gee let's have several words... Spelled the same way that mean totally different things... Spelled the same way and prounced differently, and that is what determines "how" the word was meant... Or what it was meaning... And so on.

BLAH.

So in reading the Bible... As well as really long, boring posts sometimes... I tend to almost subconsciously skip over certain parts if it appears to be a run on sentence, a statement that's already been stated... Several times... In several different ways.... All things I'm sure I am guilty of doing myself... Lol It wasn't until I slowed down... And READ the actual wording of this that I caught this one.

Does that help at all Leadfoot? Lol

@Amoh
Hey... If you like Christian music, here's a few bands for you to look up... My personal favorites. Smile A lot of praise and worship in there... Just to warn ya... Lol

Mercy Me
Casting Crowns
Third Day
Michael W Smith
Steven Curtis Chapman
Michael Card
4Him

Just to name a few... Hehe

mark noble
 
  1  
Fri 15 Apr, 2016 08:29 am
@onevoice,
Job.
Answer this - Lucifer tried to get one over on God by testing the faith of a mortal, decimated in both physical and spiritual faculties - God wins the trial.
Do you agree?
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Fri 15 Apr, 2016 08:42 am
@onevoice,
Thanks for the clarifications.

I now see that Adam named the animals before making Eve, I had never noticed that detail before.

Quote:

Gen 1:27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

I always assumed that the use of 'man', 'him' and 'them' in this verse meant 'mankind' which included women'. Because of that it never confused me.

0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Fri 15 Apr, 2016 08:43 am
@mark noble,
Re: Job

Count me as agreeing.
0 Replies
 
onevoice
 
  1  
Fri 15 Apr, 2016 08:58 am
@mark noble,
Quote:
Answer this - Lucifer tried to get one over on God by testing the faith of a mortal, decimated in both physical and spiritual faculties - God wins the trial.
Do you agree?


I'm gonna say Job won that one. Smile

Quote:
23 Then Job answered and said:

2 “Even today my complaint is bitter;
My[a] hand is listless because of my groaning.
3 Oh, that I knew where I might find Him,
That I might come to His seat!
4 I would present my case before Him,
And fill my mouth with arguments.
5 I would know the words which He would answer me,
And understand what He would say to me.
6 Would He contend with me in His great power?
No! But He would take note of me.
7 There the upright could reason with Him,
And I would be delivered forever from my Judge.
8 “Look, I go forward, but He is not there,
And backward, but I cannot perceive Him;
9 When He works on the left hand, I cannot behold Him;
When He turns to the right hand, I cannot see Him.
10 But He knows the way that I take;
When He has tested me, I shall come forth as gold.
11 My foot has held fast to His steps;
I have kept His way and not turned aside.
12 I have not departed from the commandment of His lips;
I have treasured the words of His mouth
More than my necessary food.
13 “But He is unique, and who can make Him change?
And whatever His soul desires, that He does.
14 For He performs what is appointed for me,
And many such things are with Him.
15 Therefore I am terrified at His presence;
When I consider this, I am afraid of Him.
16 For God made my heart weak,
And the Almighty terrifies me;
17 Because I was not cut off from the presence of darkness,
And He did not hide deep darkness from my face.
mark noble
 
  1  
Fri 15 Apr, 2016 09:05 am
@onevoice,
Yeah.
Now answer this - WHO was present as a witness to Lucifer and Yhwh's conversation - In order to record and deliver thus unto scripture?

Leadfoot
 
  1  
Fri 15 Apr, 2016 09:10 am
@mark noble,
Job won in the sense that he passed the test, but the wager was between God and Satan. Poor Job wasn't even aware of the wager, so he couldn't possibly 'win' it.
0 Replies
 
onevoice
 
  1  
Fri 15 Apr, 2016 09:17 am
@mark noble,
Quote:
Now answer this - WHO was present as a witness to Lucifer and Yhwh's conversation - In order to record and deliver thus unto scripture?


The Holy Spirit.
mark noble
 
  1  
Fri 15 Apr, 2016 09:24 am
@onevoice,
Ffs.
onevoice
 
  1  
Fri 15 Apr, 2016 09:34 am
@mark noble,
Quote:
Ffs


Ummm... Ok?
0 Replies
 
onevoice
 
  1  
Sun 17 Apr, 2016 11:46 am
Quote:
God's clever, talking serpent. 3:1


Quote:
Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”


"Now the serpent" translates to: nachash in the Hebrew.

naw-khawsh'; from H5172; a snake (from its hiss):—serpent. (see root)

The root word is: nâchash, naw-khash'; a primitive root; properly, to hiss, i.e. whisper a (magic) spell; generally, to prognosticate:—× certainly, divine, enchanter, (use) × enchantment, learn by experience, × indeed, diligently observe.

I found it really interesting to look at the root of this word. See... While we have many words, often with multiple meanings, the Hebrew language does not. So, strangely enough... In an effort to make things more clear we often times make them more discombobulated.

Their one word can mean a whole plethora of different things... Depending on how it is translated. In thinking about the root definition of this I was reminded of a run in I had once with a witch. Well that is what she called herself. This was actually only six years ago... maybe. I was hardly a "practicing Christian" at the time.

Actually it was right around the time I had made my decision to drink myself to death. So I honestly didn't give two hoots about much of anything at the time. We worked together in a greasy spoon type of restaurant and in one of our very few passing conversations she mentioned she was a witch.

She had actually hated me from day one. Would almost be seething when I entered the room most of the time. Nevertheless, an occasional conversation would happen... Usually out of sheer boredom... Lol So, I asked her about "being a witch". She told me she tried... But wasn't a very good one.

Then explained how in the past she had tried to put a curse on someone and it had ended up coming back on her... Worse than she had put out on them. I agreed that perhaps witchcraft was not something that would work well for her, and left it at that. A friendship never blossomed between us... Primarily because she hated me and didn't want to be my friend... Lol

So anyway, eventually I left that job, grateful to finally get away from such a negative force that this woman just kinda "put out there"... All the time... God knows I didn't need any help with that! But I ran into her a few months later. Why she was so eager to tell me this, I may never know... But man... She came bustling up to me like she had some life changing news for me or something.

Well, I guess it was pretty life changing for her... Lol Apparently, after I quit she felt "safe" to put a curse on me due to the distance quitting put between us or something. Unfortunately it backfired in a much bigger way this time. She lost her job, her car, and was on the verge of being evicted. She didn't blame me though. She actually apologized for how she had treated me for the entire year and a half we worked together.

I say all that to say this... People don't dabble with spiritual things for no reason. It is all very real whether someone chooses to believe it or not. Not saying that to scare anyone, by any means. It just is what it is, and curses can work on unbelievers, as well as some who believe they are believers, but are not.

It is certainly nothing to toy with. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction... whether it is seen or not. So whether this was a literal snake or not I do not know, nor do I care to guess. All I can share is what I do know... From my own experience.

In working with horses I found out there is a much "higher" way of communicating than the average person realizes. Things I think we used to do, but no longer find the time to do... Or perhaps they are things we no longer feel are "necessary" due to this wide world of web where we are forced to communicate with no one physically.

Trust me... This effects all our relationships whether we realize it or not. Body language speaks volumes... But it doesn't say everything... It is only the doorway into what someone really wants to say, but can't put into words. I hope you will bear with me while I try to explain here and share yet another story.

A couple of years ago, when we were trying to start up the Rescue and Rehabilitation Facility to run my Equine Assisted Therapy program I came across a little paint pony. His name was Flash. The Horse Rescue I was volunteering for to learn the ropes had rescued him a few years earlier and had unsuccessfully adopted him out several times due to behavior issues. Lol

I have to laugh... I mean the little dude did have a BIG attitude! He could easily drag a 250 lb adult male pretty much anywhere he wanted... and that usually included into a few tree's, fences, and walls! Lol Of course I didn't know all that at first... The horror stories came after I fell in love with him and decided to adopt him.

He was a cute little bugger... Smile Anyway, the first time I met him was after his third or fourth time of being returned on the night prior. He hadn't been in the pasture with any of the other horses yet. So, I turned him out and watched "short man's syndrome" play out right before my eyes.

He went to every single horse in that pasture and challenged them. Then when the head of the herd, Bela, got sick of it he began chasing Flash everywhere. If he even looked at the herd Bela would go after him. After about ten minutes of this Flash came running full tilt to the gate, wide eyed and terrified. Bela, was making another charge at him, hoping to corner him where I was.

I opened the gate and pulled him out before Bela made mince meat out of him. We tried him in a pasture with just a few other horses. There were 15 in the first pasture. All was fine until they ran out of hay. Then it became sport to chase him again. So finally we put him in with a blind horse, a miniature, and a senior horse... Strangely enough... The combination worked... Finally... Lol

It was that day I fell in love with him. When he came running up to the gate so terrified. I knew somewhere under all that fear and craziness was a strong, confident pony who was just lost and scared. I determined myself to help him... To find a way to help him.

It was difficult at first. The place he was being fostered did not have a round pen, or anywhere really to work with any of the horses. The woman who owned the place was scared of him and any interaction she had with him usually resulted badly, only making things worse. I began using a lunge line to exercise him, and was able to earn a little trust and respect with him.

We had just signed a lease for a big chunk of property in the area and had actually been talking about going 50/50 with the Horse Rescue on it because they said they were looking to downsize from 40 horses... Spread out over a couple of different counties to be able to have them all in one place. It would have worked out well for all of us, we thought.

However, after we signed the lease and committed financially they backed out. So we had already moved onto the property and had them bring the four horses we had decided to adopt to the property for us. I was then able to work more consistently with Flash. But progress with him was very slow.

He really was a fearful little guy. It took me three months to get him to lead like a normal horse. He just wasn't capable. Once a human hand clicked a lead rope on him, his entire body stiffened, his eyes got as big a saucers, and his head went straight in the air. He was ready to go. He rope burned my hands more than once.

There was no point in trying to hold him if he decided to bolt. Unless you liked being battered and bruised that is... Lol This really was a painstakingly slow process with him. I had to stop allowing anyone else to lead him for a while because any kind of crossed signal sent this little dude into a frenzy.

My first three months with him went like this... Seven days a week... When it was time to go out to the pasture and I would hook him with the lead rope I got the terrified reaction. This baffled me because I always took a very passive approach with him. Aggression just didn't work.

I would walk to the end of the lead rope, tug lightly on it, and encourage him quietly, actually whispering almost... to come out of his stall. For the first week or so he would just stand there and snort at me for about five minutes, uncertain of what I wanted. Then he would take a step, snort, and resume his original position.

Then another step... Then another... At first it would take me 45 minutes just to get him to walk the 150 feet from his stall to the round pen, or pasture. Sometimes he bolted, but usually only if something startled him. But day by day, I gained more of his trust. Earned more of his respect.

I worked him in the round pen almost every day which helped open the lines of communication further. See... In the round pen is where I find out a horses story. I am sure that sounds fruity... But it's true. No I am not an animal psychic. I can't read their minds... But I can understand what they are saying through their body language.

All of how Flash presented himself told his story really. When the world wrote him off as a stubborn, dangerous pony that was all he could display. He knew that is what was expected of him, so he was only doing what he believed he was being asked to do. Negative or not. When someone came in his life and changed the expectation... He changed.

Though teaching him he could change was a tedious process. Lol Another thing we did was keep the mares and geldings separate for a while. It changed the dynamics of everything for Flash. The Rescue just kept on bringing more horses at first. We ended up with 22 total at one point.

Since there were no longer females to impress the fighting stopped and he actually bonded with a couple of the other geldings. It was perhaps the most amazing thing I have ever watched... Seeing this fearful little pony growing in confidence day by day. I think it helped me in some ways I don't even realize yet. Smile

After a couple of months we introduced him, and the other males, to the rest of the "herd" the Rescue had brought over, and he did fabulously! He didn't let anyone bully him, and tried no shenanigans himself. It also helped that my step son's horse Hank had taken in the position of body guard for Flash... Lol He was a paint, mule mix I think.

No one messed with Hank. Even Bela didn't try challenging him. But horse to human... He was as sweet as could be with a splash of stubbornness. Every once in a while when he was feeling spunky, Hank would sneak up beside Flash, grab his halter in his teeth and take off running... Dragging poor unsuspecting Flash all over the field! It was hilarious! When Flash would finally break free he'd be a squealing and bucking all over the place and get the entire herd going!

Lol Good times... Good times... By the end of three months Flash was a whole different pony. Almost anyone could lead him effortlessly. I say almost because he, like all horses, is extremely sensative to the emotions of those around him.

So if you were afraid of him... He was afraid of you. If you were angry about anything... Relevant to him or not, he could easily revert to the fearful behavior because he honestly didn't understand you weren't angry AT him. PTSD in horses. It's real. I still believe in my heart that if I could have rescued him from that Rescue eventually he could have overcome his past completely.

It saddens me to say I will never know. I had him almost broke too. We had a saddle on him three times in the last few weeks. I just hadn't found the courage to climb on him yet... Lol Well, actually I couldn't have anyway because I had fractured my tibia right below the knee. I wasn't even supposed to be up on it at all at the time... Lol

Here's the thing though... I really couldn't believe all that was happening to me at the time. It was like a dream almost. In my heart I saw our epic failure coming... Long before it arrived. I was torn between worlds at the time. I just don't know how else to explain it. I wanted desperately to find my way back to a sense of hope... And purpose in my life.

I had been drowning in my own grief... With a large twist of whiskey for five years when this opportunity presented itself. Horses. I have never been able to resist them... Lol So, when I met Flash, I don't know... I guess I just knew inwardly that somehow if I could help him, I could help myself. Finding Flash gave me a sense of having something to fight for again in my life.

Because honestly speaking here, I didn't really feel like anyone was fighting for me anymore by that point, so I was closer to giving up fighting for myself than I think I even knew. I connected with Flash in a way I had connected with no other horse in my life time, and I did it on purpose.

I had always felt I had a special connection to horses. An unnatural ability with them even. At the age of 15 I was riding a horse as a camper at the camp I went to that most of the staff wouldn't even go near. The horseback director was the only other person who rode him.

But me and him... We "got" each other. There was an understanding between us that went far beyond words. It happened multiple times over the years, with multiple horses. Flash was different though because for the first time I began to wonder if it was a gift of some sort.

So instead of going haphazardly at this with him, which has been my usual chosen route to most anything... Lol I took every single step intentionally... Every single breath intentionally... Every single moment with him intentionally. I learned how to read him, and through doing that... I learned how to communicate with him in a way he could understand.

By the end lunging him was no work at all. I didn't even have to use verbal commands or the whip. It was all done with the tiniest of body movements and he knew exactly what I wanted and did it without hesitation. all of this has been very difficult to put into words... But what I learned through all of it is the foundation for the Equine Assisted Therapy Program I want to do.

To teach people how to listen with everything but their ears. It's what I had to do to find my healing. It's what Flash had to do to find his. I know this will work for others too. With all my heart I know it. So the communication that happened that day, back in the garden... I don't necessarily believe was a verbal exchange with a literal snake.

I actually think the writer was describing more of the character of the one Eve was talking to, regardless of what "it" was.



0 Replies
 
onevoice
 
  1  
Fri 22 Apr, 2016 09:18 am
I have been wrestling with this next part for several days now. I would like to know who decided what words filled in the blanks when translating this, and how they came about choosing the words they did. I have studied this extensively for three day now and cannot for the life of me come up with some of the same conclusions they did in what words they used. Here, let me explain:

Quote:
Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”


More cunning" translates to ʻârûwm, aw-room'; passive participle of H6191; cunning (usually in a bad sense):—crafty, prudent, subtil, in the Hebrew.

"Than any beast" translates to: chay, khah'-ee; from H2421; alive; hence, raw (flesh); fresh (plant, water, year), strong; also (as noun, especially in the feminine singular and masculine plural) life (or living thing), whether literally or figuratively:— age, alive, appetite, (wild) beast, company, congregation, life(-time), live(-ly), living (creature, thing), maintenance, merry, multitude, (be) old, quick, raw, running, springing, troop., in the Hebrew.

"Of the field" translates to: sâdeh, saw-deh'; or שָׂדַי sâday; from an unused root meaning to spread out; a field (as flat):—country, field, ground, land, soil, × wild.
In the Hebrew.

These again speak of the character of the one she was talking to. It was more cunning "thing" God had created. Here's where I think it gets interesting though. Look at what the actual Scripture says when you take away the extra words:

Now the serpent a snake, root: To hiss, whisper a magic spell
was exist, be, become
more cunning crafty
than any beast alive, raw, strong
of the field To spread out, a field
which the LORD Jehovah
God God (plural)
had made. made, fashioned
And he said to say
to the woman, Woman
Yea (not included after KJV) indeed
“Has God God
said, to say
‘You shall not eat to eat, devour
of every tree a tree
of the garden’?” the garden
And the woman Woman
said to say
to the serpent, a snake, root: To hiss, whisper a magic spell

“We may eat to eat, devour
the fruit fruit
of the trees a tree
of the garden; the garden

This is what it would look like in a sentence... Bear in mind, there are blanks but the intended meaning of many of these words does not lead to how it was translated.

First a description of a snakelike thing:

... Serpent, whispering magic spell... Exist, become... Crafty, subtle... Alive... Spread out, field... Jehovah... God... Made, fashioned... Said... Woman... Indeed... God... Said... Eat... Tree... Garden.

Quote:
3 “but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’ ”


Woman... Said... Serpent, whispering magic spell... Eat... Fruit... Tree... Garden. ... Fruit... Tree... Midst, middle... Garden... God... Said... Eat... Touch... Lest... Die.

Quote:
4 Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die.


Serpent, whispering magic spell... Said... Woman... Die, die.

Quote:
5 “For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”


God... Know... Day... Eat... Eye... Open... God (plural)... Know... Good... Evil.

Ok.. So here is my breakdown of this:

Serpent, whispering magic spell... Exist, become... Crafty, subtle... Alive... Spread out, field... Jehovah... God... Made, fashioned... Said... Woman... Indeed... God... Said... Eat... Tree... Garden.

Something showed up to speak to Eve, and just from the base words that is apparent. However, when you take out all the extra words it is not really clear WHAT it is. The sentence really makes no distinction to separate it, or make it appear more crafty than any other living beast. In fact I would have to say the entire first half of the sentence is an actual description of the thing. Then it states God made it.. And it spoke to Eve.

So what was "it"? Perhaps we will never know... But, I would compare it to a "spiritual guide" of sorts... Like what a lot of spiritualists talk about. Something that appeared in a way that was acceptable enough in Eve's sight to be willing to listen to and speak to it. Yet... Obviously hard to put into words... Lol

Not only that... I found no question in there at all. It simply said "God said eat sticks (tree) in the Garden." I said sticks because based on her response it makes the most sense of the words it translated to. She responded:

Woman... Said... Serpent, whispering magic spell... Eat... Fruit... Tree... Garden. ... Fruit... Tree... Midst, middle... Garden... God... Said... Eat... Touch... Lest... Die.

She made a distinction there... No... Not the tree.. Not sticks... The fruit... However, the fruit tree in the midst of the Garden God said eat or touch it and die. Look at his response:

Serpent, whispering magic spell... Said... Woman... Die, die.

Now think about this for a second. First of all he did not say if you eat of it you will NOT die. He said die... Twice even. Her eyes had not been opened to good and evil yet... So she didn't even know this thing she was talking to was evil, or had ill intent. So he continues on:

God... Know... Day... Eat... Eye... Open... God (plural)... Know... Good... Evil.

I believe he was encouraging her to "die" actually, because he was pointing this out as a deficiency. That God shorted her of something she deserved or needed. In short... It was the ultimate betrayal of the innocence of mankind. He went for the weakest link... The woman who is easily swayed to believe things by her emotions. Then through her emotional influence over him, she swayed Adam.








Amoh5
 
  1  
Fri 22 Apr, 2016 10:03 pm
@onevoice,
Yes onevoice, we humans can sometimes find it difficult to see beyond ourselves and our limitations. However, I think the conversations between satan/devil and our Lord Jesus is a better reference for explaining temptation...
onevoice
 
  1  
Sat 23 Apr, 2016 07:52 am
@Amoh5,
Quote:
However, I think the conversations between satan/devil and our Lord Jesus is a better reference for explaining temptation...


Just out of curiosity Amoh... Where do you believe Jesus was when this took place? There is no mention of Him in any of the scriptures so far.... Not implying anything.... And how is it you relate the temptation of Eve with the temptation of Jesus? Just curious about your thoughts on that. Smile

As for the temptation part... It's much bigger than you think. The tempting of Eve was the beginning... The tempting of Jesus was the end. What I am wishing to expose here is WHO Satan IS. Hollywood has made him out to be this red human like creature with a pitch fork in some cases and a beast like creature in others. Just like in the scriptures where it refers to this conversation being between a snake and a woman.

As humans we have a natural curiosity about virtually everything. We are wired to explore, conquer, problem solve, learn, grow, and be challenged. Whether it be physical or mental. But how do you put into words things that aren't tangible? Things that are there... But can't be seen? And can be heard... But not with our natural ear? I continued thinking on all this after posting this last one. I came across this:

Matthew 6:
21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. 22 “The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!


Just prior to verse 21 Jesus was talking about laying your "treasure" up in heaven, where there is nothing to kill steal or destroy it. Then He goes immediately into the eye being the lamp of the body. The eye translates as this:

ὀφθαλμός ophthalmós, of-thal-mos'; from G3700; the eye (literally or figuratively); by implication, vision; figuratively, envy (from the jealous side-glance):—eye, sight.

The eye can be translated literally or figuratively here. Due to the content of the scripture, I am going to say He was speaking both. Literally... Yes, the eye is what let's literal light into the body. Think about the definition here though... Literally by implication, vision... Not eye sight... Vision... Figuratively... Envy, eye, sight.

Now, think back to the garden... What did the serpent do? He manipulated her feelings by getting her to believe that God had denied her something she "needed". He changed her perception (vision, how she viewed) God. That's all it took to steal her innocence from her. To get her to wonder for a second.... Now wait a minute here...

Here's the other mistake Eve made... She didn't go to the " One" Who's motives were in question to ask about anything she was questioning. Instead she took action, then brought that action to Adam... Who again did not go to the One Who's motives were in question to ask. Prior to the temptation they knew no fear. The immediate response to their first interaction with God afterwards was fear.

What did the conversion with the serpent stir up in Eve? Fear... Fear that God had denied her something she needed. Much like I said earlier... The "serpent's" character was the prevalent thing that was described in all this. Not his physical attributes. Not his size, or the sound of his voice. His attributes. Because as Jesus said... He can take many different forms. It's all about changing a person's perspective from one of trust and hope to fear and disillusionment.

Our mind is where the battle lies. It is there the strongholds must be torn down, before one can see with their spiritual eyes.




Amoh5
 
  1  
Sat 23 Apr, 2016 12:06 pm
@onevoice,
Quote:
Just out of curiosity Amoh... Where do you believe Jesus was when this took place? There is no mention of Him in any of the scriptures so far.... Not implying anything.... And how is it you relate the temptation of Eve with the temptation of Jesus? Just curious about your thoughts on that.
.
I think the spirit of Lord Jesus was always with God, or is from God. I mentioned the temptations of Lord Jesus as an ideal reference because he understood corruptive temptations better than Adam and Eve. Therefore, he could detect an enemy in disguise from a mile away.
I guess Adam and Eve are child-like characters only having a conscience of good, not evil. So once they eat from that tree they will not only have a conscience of good, but now a conscience of corruptive evil also. This also made them shy and uncomfortable with their naked bodies.
But to me they are both innocent because God did not make them spiritually bullet-proof because he gave them freewill. I guess Gods gift of freewill to Adam and Eve had a price attached to it. God wanted them to have the joy of thinking for themselves like all other creatures. Like a computer God could have made them like robots doing only what he programs them to do. But he added a special ability for them to learn and think for themselves. But there is only one problem with Gods gift of freewill, hackers or whatever can get into their minds and corrupt them. I guess that's the price that God pays for giving all his creatures freewill.
I think you could apply this Adam and Eve scenario to your own children. You teach them good vaues so they can think safely for themselves and hope that the outside world doesn't corrupt their minds.
The devil or satan to me as a Christian is an anti-human spirit or behaviour that doesn't support the well-being of humanity, or hates us. I also think that other species would have their own type of satan or spirit that hates them. Afterall, every specie battles against the odds for their our own survival.
I also think the apple was really a piece of red meat, stories can change over time. I read the apple was a fig at one stage. But it says in the Genesis that the proper food recommended by God was fruit and herbs etc The apple scenario could well have been a piece of animal meat...
0 Replies
 
AugustineBrother
 
  1  
Thu 30 Jun, 2016 09:28 am
@onevoice,
I could probably answer 90% of them

There are 3 major fallacies that ground claims like that

1) That someone has the right interpretation, usually the poster is sure they understand it correctly, they often don't.

2) The idea that Faith comes from the Bible rather than Faith being the guide to how to read and understand it. That is how the Jewish and Christian conceptions in the main work.

3) Which Bible ? my Catholic Bible has 7 books you don't have, which necessari;u brings up authority -- but you deny authority, else you have no point
onevoice
 
  1  
Wed 6 Jul, 2016 05:27 pm
@AugustineBrother,
Quote:
1) That someone has the right interpretation, usually the poster is sure they understand it correctly, they often don't.


That is true. Very true. I certainly have no claims on perfection in my own understanding of things. But I do have an honest desire to know the truth. About anything really. This is the thing I have found on my own journey... When you honestly desire to find the truth... No matter what it's about.... You WILL find it. It really is that simple.

The problem all of us humans have in finding the truth is found in our ego. That little part of us that hates to admit we might have been wrong about something... Or someone... That we might have misunderstood something.... Or even intentionally did something that hurt someone a whole lot more than we realized it would.... There are millions of examples really.

Quote:
2) The idea that Faith comes from the Bible rather than Faith being the guide to how to read and understand it. That is how the Jewish and Christian conceptions in the main work.


Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God... The bible holds much wisdom, but you are correct in saying faith does not come from the bible. It is not something that is tangible like the bible, or can be faked or mustered up. Everything that is called "faith" now a days is not necessarily actual faith. It only comes by hearing.... and you can only really hear something if you are listening, right? The truth is discerned in the heart of the hearer... The one who is willing to hear it. Then faith is born.... Because faith is the substance of things hoped for... and the evidence of things not seen.

Quote:
3) Which Bible ? my Catholic Bible has 7 books you don't have, which necessari;u brings up authority -- but you deny authority, else you have no point


Which bible... lol Ok. so yours has seven more books than mine? And? I have not read them, nor had an inkling to, to be honest. And the NIV, New American Standard version.... and many many other translations have over simplified the bible. Rephrased it so much a lot of it doesn't even say anything close to the original writings. And why? Well the truth hurts. Any one who has lived a decent chunk of their life and still has an honest bone in their body will tell you that. That's why many don't seek the actual truth.... but rather a seeker friendly version of it instead.

But if we were somehow able to make our life pain free.... How would we know something was wrong? How would my arm heal properly if I broke it and never had it set or casted because it never hurt? How or why would I remove myself from an abusive situation if I never let myself feel the pain of the abuse that was happening to me? Pain is an indication that something is wrong. A warning sign. A very necessary part of life, growth, and maturity. Recognizing that is the first step to learning to recognize the truth.

Leadfoot
 
  1  
Thu 7 Jul, 2016 02:12 pm
@onevoice,
Quote:
Pain is an indication that something is wrong. A warning sign. A very necessary part of life, growth, and maturity. Recognizing that is the first step to learning to recognize the truth.

I just have to butt in here and second that. It can't be said too often.
0 Replies
 
 

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