Is there really such thing as time?

It's taking me a minute to type out my reply. Or is it? I am older than I was a minute ago. Or am I? Now I'm all confused!

If it's another dimension isn't it real?

yes, it is real, but not in the way we think of it as. It is not a running clock with seconds ticking away. It's hard to invision clearly and even I can't really understand it myself, that's why I started this thread. I was hoping for some detailed insight.

There is change, so some change must occur before other change implying time. For instance, we can see that planets change and animals evolve. But if you're talking about psychological time, our perception of time, then that is another matter entirely.

I think that time in relation to our existence and the formation of a personal self or the illusion of a personal self or ego is something that we have to find out through observation and personal experience. I could give you my views on psychological time and ego formation, but I'm not sure that it would help you. I'm not sure it's possible to transmit personal spiritual experience in any meaningful way except through metaphor, or poetry or music. Religions have tried throughout history and miserably failed. Religious metaphors invariably are taken literally by their followers, who see their symbols as conflicting with the symbols of other religions even though the underlying metaphors are the same. The reason I've wandered into religion is that I think the matter of psychological time and self formation is a spiritual matter and not in the realm of objective science.

I have tried in the past to explain my experiences on time in relation to ego formation in the past on this website and on Abuzz, but failed to sway anyone. The very few who understood what I had to say had already experienced what I had experienced. On this website, JL Nobody is conversant on this subject, but I believe he has commented extensively on another thread and may find this thread redundant.

There is change, so some change must occur before other change implying time. For instance, we can see that planets change and animals evolve. But if you're talking about psychological time, our perception of time, then that is another matter entirely.

I think that time in relation to our existence and the formation of a personal self or the illusion of a personal self or ego is something that we have to find out through observation and personal experience. I could give you my views on psychological time and ego formation, but I'm not sure that it would help you. I'm not sure it's possible to transmit personal spiritual experience in any meaningful way except through metaphor, or poetry or music. Religions have tried throughout history and miserably failed. Religious metaphors invariably are taken literally by their followers, who see their symbols as conflicting with the symbols of other religions even though the underlying metaphors are the same. The reason I've wandered into religion is that I think the matter of psychological time and self formation is a spiritual matter and not in the realm of objective science.

I have tried in the past to explain my experiences on time in relation to ego formation in the past on this website and on Abuzz, but failed to sway anyone. The very few who understood what I had to say had already experienced what I had experienced. On this website, JL Nobody is conversant on this subject, but I believe he has commented extensively on another thread and may find this thread redundant.

Coluber, redundant perhaps, but necessary nevertheless. You put it very clearly, so carry on.

Re: Is there really such thing as time?


Right, on one level, there is no such thing as time. But where do you draw the line? Is there such a thing as anything? What is real? Is the earth, the universe, any more "real" than time? Is there such a thing as the earth, for example? Or is it an illusion that we've all agreed upon. A dream. Its a puzzle within an enigma within an illusion.

This is a tough question. Threads here such as "How do you define Time?" and "Is the Universe Infinite?" have a lot of great posts from some wise folks on this subject. Still, it seems like even the geniuses among us struggle a bit with it.

There's something to this space-time continuum that we're in, that humanity seems to still be struggling to get their brains around. (Well, the miniscule percent that stop to consider it at all, anyway).

Time and space, could this be the next frontier that humanity faces? Awhile back, it was common to say: "Space, the final frontier." But as (time) goes on, we are beginning to see that time & space are heavily intertwined. We can't really talk about one without talking about the other.

coluber2001 posted the same things twice - or did he? I hear Twilight Zone music.

Do things move? As long as they do there is time.

McGentrix, let me reverse it:
Is there time? So long as there is things will move.

only if they have force applied to them. Movement requires time, time does not require movement.

On first glance, this seems so.

But really, if there was no movement of anything, no change of anything, would time continue?

What if everything (movement & change) froze right now? Would time continue?

(Admittedly, I am adding "change" to the equation here).

It seems like time & movement/change are interdependent.

If time can exist without movement or change, how do you define time?
(most definitions I've seen of time involve "measurement of something changing/growth/movement," etc.)

Time (dictionary def):
1. A nonspatial continuum in which events occur in apparently irreversible succession from the past through the present to the future.
2. A number, as of years, days, or minutes, representing such an interval: ran the course in a time just under four minutes.
3. A system by which such intervals are measured or such numbers are reckoned: solar time.

Events occuring, planets moving... all include movement or change, etc. Can time exist if nothing happens, no movement?

Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.

Yes, there is such a thing as "time" that determines the speed of light, birth of stars, revolutions of planets, rate of chemical reactions, atomic oscillations, days and nights, seasons, and our perception of where we stand in relation to everything else going on in the universe.

Without change there is no perception of time, without time there can be no change and the universe could not have come into existence.

Time exists.
But Newsweek is an illusion.

Terry, well put. Without time many--no all--things could not be. The very nature of the world is change, becoming, process, etc. But the question is What IS time? Can anyone possibly answer that question? This would have to be more than a simple definition, but what should it be? It is at the heart of everything, probably too general a characteristic of Reality to be captured by our minds and its languages.

Good point. Time allows things to happen, movements to take place, etc. If there was no time, nothing could happen. What I wonder about is sort of the reverse:

If nothing moves, nothing changes, no events take place;

Does time still pass? Does time exist under those conditions?

In a weird way, then: Is something as abstract and invisible as Time actually dependent on very physically mundane objects we can touch and see like planets, stars, the universe? If no physical objects exist or move, does time still exist?

***

On a vaguely related note: You know, everyone is all worried about getting killed by a terrorist, a mugger, a disease, etc. But really, what will get the vast majority of us, is, this invisible thing, this thing that no one understands 100%, imperceptible, slowly moving, inexorable: Time. If nothing else gets you...just let enough Time pass. Time will get us all in the end. Well, in this mortal coil, at least.

Is there a sort of brain-block there, a glass ceiling, that is part of our existence, which holds us back from fully comprehending time?

tcis, very thoughtful. Now I'm afraid of time too.

I asked a friend of mine the simple question "What is time?"

His answer was pretty good I think.

"The 4th dimension.
Relativity shows it is not constant for all observers.
Psychological time is what we notice, how we understand it first hand.
It comes in quantum increments, aproximately 10 to the (-47) of a second
(That is 1/100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000th of a second)
Time is a river.
(and a magazine!)"

Which implies that time would pre-exist the universe in order to create it! If true, and there's speculation that it is, universes are created endlessly.


I'll say this even though the question wasn't addressed to me.
As long as a single quark wants to combine with another quark time exists in its local field of operation. Any object a fraction above 0 kelvin radiates energy and again time exists. Time is the catalyst of process going faster or slower.