Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2015 02:29 pm
Please help me decide an argument. In the following sentence should "who" or "whom" be used:

"That's the trouble with teachers, sometimes they forget who are their pupils and who are not"
  • Topic Stats
  • Top Replies
  • Link to this Topic
Type: Discussion • Score: 2 • Views: 622 • Replies: 7
No top replies

 
Tes yeux noirs
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2015 03:53 pm
Who for both. No teacher is going to ask "whom are my pupils?". According to the rules of formal grammar, who should be used in the subject position in a sentence, while whom should be used in the object position, and also after a preposition. So from the formal rule it's "who" for both places in your sentence. In practice, most people never use whom anyway because it sounds extremely formal. They don't use whom at all, and instead use who in all contexts.



jaybravo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2015 04:08 pm
@Tes yeux noirs,
Thanks Tes Yeux

Aren't the pupils the object of the sentence, and the teachers the subject?
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2015 04:41 pm
@jaybravo,
Quote:
Aren't the pupils the object of the sentence, and the teachers the subject?


It's more complex than that.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2015 06:18 pm
There are four subjects in that sentence. "That's" is the abbreviation for "that is," and that is the first subject. In the second clause, the subject is "they," which refers to teachers (this is not a predicate nominative, but functions as a predicate nominative does--it renames "teachers" as "they"). Finally, the last two subjects are "who"--who are and who are not. Therefore, one uses the subjective form. Who is used as a pronoun and the subject of "who are," and "who are not."
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2015 06:30 pm
To recapitulate, there are four subject/verb combinations:

That's (That is)

They forget

Who are

Who are not.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 3 Sep, 2015 08:45 pm
@jaybravo,
The proper places to use "whom" is something that bedevils even native English speakers.

Many native English speakers (me included) just use "who" no matter what.

Upper class and/or highly educated people often make a point of using "whom" and using it correctly.

If someone tries to use "whom" but they use it incorrectly, it makes them sound foolish and pretentious.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Sep, 2015 03:48 am
@oralloy,
A good rule of thumb for the native speaker is asking oneself if one would use the third person objective:

We gave it to him. You gave it to whom?

I got it from her. You got it from whom?

She went with them. She went with whom?

Whom is never the subject acting with a verb. That must always be "who."

Lucy is the one who gave it to us. Brad asked who got that for you. We asked her who went with her.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

deal - Question by WBYeats
Let pupils abandon spelling rules, says academic - Discussion by Robert Gentel
Please, I need help. - Question by imsak
Is this sentence grammatically correct? - Question by Sydney-Strock
"come from" - Question by mcook
concentrated - Question by WBYeats
 
  1. Forums
  2. » who/whom
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 04/25/2024 at 02:01:55