To Lie or not to Lie/what age is ok to explain a lie may be good?

for all the talk about how parents and teachers are supposed to be a team, that our kids deserve this, far too often teachers decide that forming relationships with parents is not where they want to spend more time than they must.

I don't think I agree with this. There is no slippery slope. This teenaged girl already knows how to lie and has her own understanding of the sometimes complex issues around when lying is appropriate or necessary. There are sometimes it is good to lie. There are other times that lying is wrong. You can't learn the difference unless you are faced with this distinction. Telling kids that they can't lie about anything does them a disservice.

Lying is a necessary social skill. You can't live an adult life without the ability to lie and the experience dealing with those awkward social situations that demand a lie.

The best way we as parents can teach our children to deal with the complexities of adult life is not by rules... honestly most adults break their own rules. We should be honest with our teens about these things. The best path is sometimes difficult and lines are sometimes blurred. We can help our children by helping them work through these times, and by saying honestly, when appropriate, that "yes, this is a time where a lie would be ok".

It doesn't help our kids to present a over-simplistic imaginary world of black and white choices and straight lines between right and wrong. That isn't the reality we live in, and it is not the reality they live in.

We should be honest with our kids about lying.

Fortunately I have been lucKY. Most tea here
worked with us. I think going to a private small school though helped us. We knew more about our children so when we moved and the kids went to public we kept those thoughts in mind. When older daughter exceled in classes but fell behind in other due to private vs. Public teaching, We were fortunate to have helpful teachers.

Yes, I understand that some of the good Eastern Schools I would not recognize. We have always been places were the public schools were middling or worse. But I swear, the schools that I put three kids in (the 8 years I was not homeschooling) the teachers look at the parents as problems and time sucks to be managed. When we the people spend $13,000 a year for each kid that drives me crazy. I am also not inclined to vote for tax increases for schools or school make work programs.

Or, could just tell her to tell the truth. Made a decision, now own it. Don't be a punk and try to wiggle out of the consequences.

Great quote.

I think children at a very young age (like 5) can be taught what a "little white lie" is and how that is different from a large black one. That is also an opportunity for explaining the negatives of little white lies.

This time of year is huge as the kids get their schedules. Being in a smaller community it is easier to know which teachers are good and which ones not so much.

Younger daughter has not got her schedule yet, but she found out her homeroom teacher and is very happy with him. She will know then as a result which teachers she will have because at that age they are divided by teams.

My older daughter seems to have a better group this year -- although she had a couple of really goods ones, the others were duds with one really unreasonable difficult teacher. Two of the teachers she had previously and had good experiences with them. The others seem to be better matches for her as well.

So we are hoping for a good year. My older it will be much more important being her junior year which is typically demanding academically.

Um.. I don't believe that in any situation, lying is okay or acceptable. I understand that it can be offensive but "always choose the harder right over the easier wrong". Your daughter acted with integrity and accepted the consequence- and that is not something to change.

How about in Nazi Germany when people lied to SS soldiers to protect the Jews they were hiding. Was lying to save innocent lives acceptable in this case?

This is an extreme example... but it really happened. I am making two points; that absolutist thinking always leads to contradictions, and that sometimes lying is the "difficult right" thing to do.

Still, from my early twenties, I don't lie. I'm 75. I have skirted, saying I like the green blouse better, but even that is rarely. It's been decades since I've done that skirting stuff.. Being straight forward is much less bother, and people can trust you.

Re Nazi types, Max, they are on ignore. If I face them in real life, I'll make my special New Mexico Pizza.

Sometimes the moral thing to do involves lying. The example I gave was when people living under Nazi rule had to lie to police to save lives; this is an extreme example of where there was a moral imperative to lie. There are much less extreme cases... but in my opinion, lying to save someone's life is certainly morally justified... the lesser case of lying to protect someones feelings is sometimes morally justified too.

(I wasn't talking about people you run into on the interwebs.)

BTW; did you see the movie "The Invention of Lying"... it was enjoyable (not super great, but kind of fun). It imagined how difficult it would be to live in a world where no one lies.

I can agree re nazi's in your living room situations. Too late, of course.

Lieying to be tactful is of course acceptable or to protect someone,
I used to have a friend, who never lied. This also meant you could never tell her anything which should be a secret.
If someone told me about her say - marriage problems - and told me not to tell anybody I would anytime denay I knew anything.
My friend would in the same situation say "I cannot lie" and tell all she knew.

I was married to a psychoanalyst. He was not allowed to tell me anything, but it
did happen that clients told me things. I had to in that case keep just as professional secrecy as he did.

When we tell things, we often "colour" our story to make it more interesting,
which now and then will lead to not the exact truth. If you like a person, you would describe them kinder than if you do not like them.