Bernie the Jew. WWJD?

He just uses it as a punctuation mark, sort of like saying "I Have Spoken."

What Would You Do sounds like What Would Jew Do when you do the consonant assimilation.

Anyway, I've been getting good vibes from Bernie. If the military industrial complex lets him live long enough to make the primaries, I think he's got a solid shot at it.

I Have Spoken/I am wasted.

either/either
potato/potato

Popularized by Mr. Mackey:

He took it up after my reply to him on another thread.
http://able2know.org/topic/282015-4#post-5976380

he's been doing it for quite a while

maybe even as long as he's been using 'what say you'

Hmm, I've seen a few members using it every now and again, but only saw Hawkeye's use of it--rather heavily--after that reply.

I'm not sure I subscribe to that. If a candidate believes that the end of the world is nigh, and that this is a good thing because he's going to partake in the rapture, I would like to know this, and I would consider it an argument against voting for him.

On the other hand, it's a fact of life that out-of-the-closet atheists are near-impossible to get elected into public office, and that secular Jews are the closest things to atheists who have a fighting chance. So the fact that Sanders is a secular Jew is a plus to me.

So, what makes for a "secular Jew"?

http://secularjewishcircle.org/

http://www.retired.secularjewishcircle.org/



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leonard-fein/let-secular-jews-be-secular-jews_b_2567318.html



http://www.csjo.org/

I cannot speak for Bernie the potential candidate, but in my opinion, many a secular Jew is overtly pro-Israel. Possibly it might have to do with the fact that the Nazis put all Jews in the ovens - secular or religious. So, since many people of Jewish descent are aware of the racial criteria for being a Jew, in the minds of some, and therefore a potential statistic during the Holocaust - many are quite pro-Israel. That could be a problem for a candidate that is Jewish. Especially with the progressive crowd that feels that Israel needs to be less protective of its citizens, since it is infringing on Palestinians' ability to plan their day well, time wise. Or, that the Israelis should not complain about the need to run into a bomb shelter once in awhile, while a rocket lands nearby.

But, the problem is not anti-Semitism in the voting population, in my opinion, but Judeophobia. Meaning, many otherwise decent people were taught well by their popular culture not to trust a Jew not to be up to something, that will be to the detriment of the rest of the population. Two thousand years of that learning curve is hard to unlearn, so quickly, after John XX111, in my opinion.

Foofie, you think many Americans are Judeophobic?

Well, I don't care about Bernie's religion, he makes a lot of sense and despite his age, he is very progressive in my book.

------
Thomas: Yes, to a certain extend I agree. If a presidential candidate is overly religious and tries to implement it into his political career, that's a definite no, however, I never would vote for a devote religious candidate regardless. Most of them are hypocrites anyway.

The word is "devout". That is why you should never discuss religion.

Especially with a lying penis like you.

You don't get it do you? People like you are toast around here.

There is a new sheriff in town. Stick to your hate of different solutions, and the dreaded Jews.

If a sociologist made a histogram for U.S. Judeophobia, in my opinion, those with less college would be more Judeophobic. Also, those in blue-collar jobs would be more Judeophobic. Also, those in lower economic brackets would be more Judeophobic. Also, those in the U.S. "hinterland" would be more Judeophobic. All just my opinion; however, it does seem to correlate to being more Judeophobic if one doesn't have much prior interaction with Jews since childhood. That means that even in the large urban areas, one may have only met a Jew that might have been in a position of authority, such as teacher, etc.

Bottom line, in my opinion, a majority of U.S. residents subscribe to Judeophobia as part of their belief systems, since the Church proselytized Judeophobia for more than a millenium. Just look at Dickens' Oliver Twist and the character Fagin. The message was (Dickens was a social reformer in his novels) one should not abandon one's children to become street urchins, or they could wind-up to be part of a gang of pick-pockets "managed" by a Jew (Fagin).

And, since you might not know early 20th century social history, before WWII, U.S. Jews were considered the criminal element that ran brothels, and other illegal activities. They played a part in Prohibition illegal activities too.

It was only my mother's generation, born a little after the beginning of the 20th century, that told their son's: GO TO COLLEGE, GO TO COLLEGE, GO TO COLLEGE. Some Jewish social (charitable) organizations started in the late 19th century to aid the wives and children of men that were incarcerated.

Today, many people think of U.S. Jews as not a criminal element; however, based on their concern for Israel's survival, they might be thought of as having the old "dual loyalty." No more than the Anglo-Saxons in the U.S. that wanted the U.S. to enter WWII on the side of Britain. If you notice 500,000 Americans died in WWII, and no Americans really fought and died, due to Israel's several wars (against regular Arab armies). Who has dual loyalty?

And, the fact that today there are individuals that still remember the bombing of the USS Liberty (a ship that was monitoring the 1967 Middle East War), as proof that Jews (Israelis of course) really don't care about American lives, yet the U.S. allowed many convicted Nazi war criminals get out of prison fairly early, and showed so much concern for rebuilding Germany after WWII, makes me think that the U.S. has its favorites. Meaning, Germans en masse are not condemned to continued enemy status, after WWII (as it should be), yet Jews (all) are condemned to questionable patriotic status 48 years after the bombing of the USS Liberty. Double standard due to intractable alienation (aka, Judeophobia) from Jews?

By the way, since the U.S. is still a Protestant nation (majority) and Protestants are oriented towards making greater wealth, Jews are, in my opinion, just considered a "resource" for innovation, similar to Asians, Indians (from India), and those other non-Christians that seem able to come up with new money making innovations.

And, the segment of society that is not part of the wealthy class, Jews might be valued only if it is perceived that Gentiles are getting "good utility" from Jews (i.e., my child's reading teacher is Jewish; my dentist is Jewish; my doctor is Jewish; my accountant is Jewish; my lawyer is Jewish; etc.). Jews still value education as the part of society that might be more philo-Semitic.

The west coast might be less Judeophobic than other U.S. regions, since the west coast was once "the old west," and societal labels were less rigid (Wyatt Earp is buried in a Hebrew cemetary; his wife was from a Jewish banking family in San Francisco).

I am not so sure that your perception is still valid today, Foofie. Remember, you don't get out much and your perspective doesn't reach beyond your neighborhood.

I've lived on the East Coast (NYC) and I am now on the West Coast (CA) and I thought Jewish communities had much more power in NYC than out here, but I could not detect Judeophobia in either place.

Now being German, I had to pick up on this


You think Germany should be continuously condemned until doomsday?
The WWII generation is mostly dead, and the survivors are in their 90s. Not to forget or diminish the horrendous atrocities our grandfathers committed, why should the young generation still be condemned?

You might be misconstruing what I wrote. No. Germany and Germans should not be "continuously condemned until doomsday." But, I get the feeling that there are Europeans that still are phobic/resentful about Germany. Not militarily, but in begrudging them their success in rebuilding their economy and nation.

However, to be honest, many Jews of nominal religious identity will not include Germany in any European vacation. Meaning they wish Germany no harm, but will not give one vacation dollar to the economy. I perceive that as an object lesson on a micro scale; that being Germany had its chance to be nice, and they followed the propaganda of you know who. I know there was hyperinflation, and reparations out of all proportions, but that is not a reason to follow base emotions. The Holocaust could not have happened unless there was tremendous resentment over German Jewish success, in my opinion.

You might not be detecting any Judeophobia since many might just treat you as a madel too nice to be made part of that talk, but let me assure you that many of the people of nominal means have tremendous resentment towards U.S. Jews. Especially, in urban/suburban centers that have a secular Jewish community. The Jewish students do not tend to fail algebra, so to speak, so the alienation stems often from "they think they're so smart."

Plus, if you listen to the political talk, as to why the U.S. is pro-Israel, it often reflects the belief in the almost magical ability of the Jewish political action committees to "buy" politicians. This totally ignores the tens of millions of Christian Zionists that vote in those politicians' districts. Jews are easy to scapegoat, amongst those looking for a reason to have a moral high ground, if they cannot have the intellectual high ground, in my opinion.

In this country at least, intolerance has generally been directed at recent arrivals and others who,whether through their own choice or the intolerance of others, weren't perceived as assimilated well into the general culture. Just as there's not much of that left here for the Irish, Italians, Poles or even Catholics, there's not much left for Jews here either. Its often very hard to identify folks from any of these groups anymore and increasingly they themselves don't make the identification very much either.

I don't agree with your suggestion that intolerance is any less among the well-educated and wealthy than unwashed poor or laboring folk. The intolerance of the educated, prosperous classes is no less: it is merely differently directed.

Jews have established a presence nearly all over the world and, as a result, there's the opportunity for this sort of thing in every such place. I believe this accounts for a good deal of the "Judeophobia" to which you refer. There is in addition the Christian bias to which you referred. However, even here it is important to consider the context. Jews did manage to thrive throughout Europe as their numbers attest. The suppression of the Cathars in Southern France in the early 13th century was a far worse event than anything that befell Europeran Jews until the Holocaust, which unhappily set a new benchmark.

The political power of American Jews reached a peak during the Truman Administration with our trailblazing nearly instant recognition of the state of Israel in 1947. This was indeed a fairly radical step in that it fundamentally changed the political situation in the Mideast and flew against the policies and interests of most of our allies and, as well, many geostrategical thinkers and policy makers here. Thus event was indeed a dramatic example of effective, organized Jewish political action, and the obvious motivation provided by the Holoucaust and the fate of displaced European Jews after WWII, all of which made it perfectly understandable.

I believe that, particularly since the 1967 seizure of the West Bank territory and the attendant political (and later physical) isolation of its Moslem and Christian inhabitants, political support for Israel has very slowly declined, mostly due to the perceptions attending the continuing struggles between Israel and these West Bank Palestinians.

Human history is full of intolerance and even brutal exterminations of whole communities and peoples. These range from the work of the Mongul hordes, followed by the similar ravages of Tamerlane (roughly contemporaneous with the Cathar extermination in France), to the 30 years war across Europe to, widespread slavery, and in more recent times, the extermination of Circassians by Russia and Armenians by the Turks in the late 19th & early 20th centuries; followed by tens of millions exterminated in various purges in the Soviet Empire, that followed by even worse events in Maoist China, the Moslim/Hindu conflict in India/Pakistan, and so on. It's a fairly long and widespread story that touches every time, place and people. The sufferings of Jews are an important part of that story, but they are only a part if it.

Supposedly, in the U.S. today, Jews are mostly just social pariahs, be that with an upper class, or lower class. But, since they have the "niche" as innovators, the country, based on the Protestant ethic to amass wealth, might just believe Jews are a valued resource, as are educated Asians, Indians (from India). Fine.

But, the need, as we even see on this forum, to be so concerned what a country, the size of New Jersey, is doing that's less than totally ethical, disregarding the attempt at annihilation through four wars, or desire for dismemberment, is just so telling that the political left has a new reason to dislike Jews. Notice that alienation from other groups usually ended when the one main antagonism ended. So, for example, when Studs Lonigan's character could no longer be called "wild Irish," the Irish entered mainstream success. With Jews there always seems to be a new reason for alienation and contempt. As Europe became "post Christian," being anti-Zionist, based on Zionism being an archaic concept took hold, disregarding what brought Zionism into existence.

I won't belabor this anymore in this post. Let's just say that Jews just threaten, on a gut level, those Gentiles that feel they can cow the masses, but the Jew is just too damn independent in his/her thinking to be a follower, unless the Gentile is aligned with a Jewish mindset. In fact, Jews have suffered expulsion when there was a power change in a country. Jews are just very loyal to the old regime, and threaten a new regime. Just my opinion.