Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Feb, 2016 06:09 pm
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/02/01/what-it-means-if-hillary-clinton-loses-iowa-tonight/

Can hardly breathe.
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Reply Mon 1 Feb, 2016 10:42 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

I won't be choosing either.

You of the outre-mer are in the same position as the Melians, to whom the Athenians said "the strong do what they will, while the weak do what they must." You foreigners don't get to vote, but you still must live with the consequences. We, at least, get to choose our poison. You have it thrust upon you.
Kolyo
 
  2  
Reply Mon 1 Feb, 2016 11:30 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Not voting for the dem candidate in the main election is like voting for Trump or Cruz. I agree with Snood here. Lesser of two evils, etc.


My French uncle is a socialist, but I'll bet he voted for Chirac in the final round of the 2002 presidential election. He would not have stayed home in protest.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  4  
Reply Mon 1 Feb, 2016 11:52 pm
@Lash,
They're only a few votes apart. Even if Bernie loses to Hilary - it's only by a few votes which is a huge victory in my book for Bernie.

They said from the 17 - 28 age group a whopping 82 % voted for Bernie.
Those millennials are out there and voting, I like that a lot!!
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Feb, 2016 01:34 am
@CalamityJane,
Quote:
The close vote means that Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Sanders are likely to split Iowa’s share of delegates to the Democratic convention, and Mr. Sanders will be able to argue that the Iowa result was a virtual tie.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/02/02/us/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-democratic-iowa-caucus.html

Way to go Bernie!
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 2 Feb, 2016 03:22 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Not voting for the dem candidate in the main election is like voting for Trump or Cruz.

It won't matter. After the 2013 gun control debacle, the Republicans are going to win the White House no matter what happens.

But I don't think you need to fear Trump or Cruz. It looks like Rubio will be America's next president.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Feb, 2016 04:02 am
@oralloy,
I wish I could share your optimism.
Olivier5
 
  3  
Reply Tue 2 Feb, 2016 05:22 am
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

You foreigners don't get to vote, but you still must live with the consequences. We, at least, get to choose our poison. You have it thrust upon you.

We're just living in non-tipping states, like you do... ;-)
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  5  
Reply Tue 2 Feb, 2016 06:03 am
@oralloy,
Nobody remembers the 2013 gun control non-debate.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Feb, 2016 09:48 am
Quote:

Bernie Sanders Needs More Than The Tie He Got In Iowa

Sometimes votes have clear outcomes and sometimes they don’t. Monday’s Iowa Democratic caucuses are an example of the latter. Hillary Clinton seems to have barely beaten Bernie Sanders in the closest Iowa Democratic caucus ever after holding a small lead in most Iowa polls before the caucuses. That means Iowa probably hasn’t reshaped the Democratic race for president and Clinton remains the favorite.

But neither Clinton nor Sanders did so well as to make me think either candidate will gain momentum heading into the New Hampshire primary next week. Sanders is likely to win in the Granite State — he has either an 89 percent chance or a 96 percent chance of winning there, depending on whether you look at FiveThirtyEight’s polls-plus forecast or polls-only forecast. Still, the results in Iowa suggest that polls in New Hampshire may tighten. That’s because the states look similar demographically. Even taking into account that Sanders lives next door in Vermont, Clinton probably shouldn’t be behind by 17 percentage points in the New Hampshire polling average right now.

Assuming Sanders holds on to win in New Hampshire, would that be bad news for Clinton? Although I’m not sure that anyone wants to lose a primary, how she frames a loss in New Hampshire will matter a lot. If she is seen as doing better than expected, she could get a bump (something she is now unlikely to get coming out of Iowa). If, however, Sanders gets good press, he may improve his chances despite the demographic challenges facing him in other states.

We’ve said for months that Iowa and New Hampshire are two of the best states for Sanders demographically. You can see why in the entrance poll taken in Iowa. Sanders won very liberal voters over Clinton by 19 percentage points, but he lost self-identified somewhat liberals and moderates to Clinton by 6 percentage points and 23 percentage points, respectively. That’s bad for Sanders because even though 68 percent of Iowa Democratic caucus-goers identified as liberal this year, only 47 percent of Democratic primary voters nationwide did so in 2008. We’ll need to see if Sanders can do better in a state that is more moderate than Iowa before thinking he can win the nomination.

Iowa and New Hampshire also lack nonwhite voters, who form a huge part of the Democratic base. Can Sanders win over some of these voters? Clinton has held a lead among nonwhites of nearly 40 percentage points in national polls. In Nevada, which votes after the New Hampshire primary, the electorate for the Democratic caucuses in 2008 was 15 percent Hispanic and 15 percent black. After Nevada comes South Carolina, where a majority of Democratic voters will be black. Our polls-only forecast in South Carolina gives Clinton a 94 percent chance to win, and our polls-plus forecast gives her a 96 percent chance to win.

Clinton will continue to be a favorite for the Democratic nomination if she continues to hold a large lead among nonwhite voters and basically breaks even with white voters, as she did in Iowa. Sanders, meanwhile, needs to cut into Clinton’s lead among nonwhites and expand his support among white voters beyond what he won in Iowa. If he does that, he’ll put himself in contention to win the nomination. If he doesn’t, he’ll continue to be an underdog.


source
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 2 Feb, 2016 11:50 am
@roger,
roger wrote:
I wish I could share your optimism.

Mainstream Republicans are already coalescing around Rubio.

It'll be a "Trump verses Rubio" race for awhile, but the party machinery will win in the end.
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Feb, 2016 11:50 am
@revelette2,
Your source is a blog and a private opinion, just like ours.

Bernie has won already! He came 9 months ago into the ring as a virtual nobody and he has made it without donations of corporate America, without lobbyists standing behind him and without the NRA. He came with an honest approach, with money from pivate people, and he is giving Americans hope that there is more to politics than just greed, power and their own enrichment of funds.

To get this far ahead in Iowa to be neck on neck with a career politician like Hilary Clinton whose promises are by far the most outrageous (in the Democratic field), is quite remarkable for Sanders. He's got practically no media coverage other than social media by individuals, every stone that is placed in his way he's climbed over and he managed to get young voters excited to not only vote for him, but to believe in a better future for them.

Iowans have shown already what America will show in the months to come - that we need a change in the same old, same old manipulative, stagnating and contra productive society of greed in politics.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 2 Feb, 2016 11:51 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Nobody remembers the 2013 gun control non-debate.

Memory isn't necessary. What was important was that, by expending every last bit of his second term political capital throwing tantrums at the NRA, Mr. Obama deprived himself of any second term legislative victories.

Come election day it will have been a long six years since he got any legislation passed. That is going to make for an easy Republican victory.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  3  
Reply Tue 2 Feb, 2016 11:53 am
@oralloy,
I hope your computer breaks down sooner than later...

Your just talking nonsense. Mainstream Republicans are down at the swamp holding onto a branch....and it ain't the olive branch!
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 2 Feb, 2016 12:03 pm
@CalamityJane,
CalamityJane wrote:
I hope your computer breaks down sooner than later...

It's already broken down. It's never going to start again. I only have until it crashes or freezes up and then it'll be time to cannibalize it for parts.

But I can borrow a computer for a quick post if I really need to post something. And it won't take me all that long to build a new one. I'll be back well before election day.

And anyway, the factors shaping the election are in place regardless of my presence on the internet. The die was cast back in 2013. Now it's just a matter of sitting back and watching all the pieces settle into place.


CalamityJane wrote:
Your just talking nonsense. Mainstream Republicans are down at the swamp holding onto a branch....and it ain't the olive branch!

No olive branches. This is the beginning of a period of Republican dominance. The Supreme Court is about to shift so far to the right that you'll soon be thinking of Justice Scalia as "one of the old moderates".
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Feb, 2016 12:10 pm
@revelette2,
Enten is always an interesting read. Thanks for the link/article.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  3  
Reply Tue 2 Feb, 2016 02:39 pm
@CalamityJane,
Glad to see someone admits that most of what is posted here is opinion. Now how a little bit of fact. When Clinton gave her farewell speech the bernie ates hissed, booed, and called her a lier during her speech. Fact. I think that a majority of the Bernie people are showing more charcter traits with the tea bag people even though their beliefs are 180 degrees apart.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2016 03:39 am
a worthwhile perspective

https://medium.com/@Lookingforrobyn/when-you-ask-me-to-vote-for-hillary-174becdb5ccc#.qkvji12kj
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2016 04:30 am
So, this is what's happening.

The coalition that has grown up around Bernie Sanders will likely register I and vote I in the general if Bernie isn't the nominee, and begin work immediately hashing out platforms for a viable I party or a Democratic Socialist party - and start fielding candidates for congress and local races.

Bernie Democrats are enraged at how the DNC has manipulated media and rules to promote their favored candidate and suppress votes. The DNC is about to lose a large percentage of their base.



Olivier5
 
  4  
Reply Wed 3 Feb, 2016 09:05 am
@Lash,
I seriously doubt Bernie Sanders will run as an independent presidential candidate. He doesn't want to help get Trump or Cruz elected.
 

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