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Are men financially shooting themselves in the foot by their own misogyny?

 
 
Reply Thu 19 Mar, 2015 12:29 pm
Are men financially shooting themselves in the foot by their own misogyny?

http://www.upworthy.com/51-pretty-shocking-facts-that-make-things-harder-for-every-woman-you-have-ever-met?c=reccon1

My wife was lucky in that even though she did not make as much as men for the same work, she did quite well financially.

That means that I was quite lucky as well because between us we did quite well.

Many misogynous and chauvinistic men have not done as well because of their own gender views and complain vehemently against the system of misogyny when it comes to their own wealth, --- even as they support it and keep their wives, daughters and mothers as second class citizens.

Are all husbands and men who plan to marry, --- who are not promoting equality, --- financially shooting themselves in the foot by their own misogyny?

Regards
DL
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Thu 19 Mar, 2015 12:43 pm
@Greatest I am,
I am all in favor of equal pay for equal work. I am not in favor of propaganda based on ridiculous one-sided arguments.

I would be all in favor of having a real, respectful, discussion about changing gender roles in society and how to make things more fair. Having thoughtful discussions on this topic means recognizing that simplistic slogans or ideological narratives miss the often complex issues that are important.

This simplistic argument doesn't make much sense. First of all, the implication is that men didn't benefit from excluding women from the workplace. This contradicts the feminist argument that they did benefit.
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Thu 19 Mar, 2015 12:43 pm
@Greatest I am,
The pay gap is a myth.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Mar, 2015 12:44 pm
@Baldimo,
If you look objectively at the actual data Baldimo, this is a tough argument to make. It is pretty clear that there is a pay gap... it may not be a large as some people claim, but profession by profession it is clear that women are paid less then men.
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Thu 19 Mar, 2015 12:49 pm
@maxdancona,
The gap is less than 5% when an honest accounting is given.
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  2  
Reply Thu 19 Mar, 2015 12:49 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I am all in favor of equal pay for equal work. I am not in favor of propaganda based on ridiculous one-sided arguments.

I would be all in favor of having a real, respectful, discussion about changing gender roles in society and how to make things more fair. Having thoughtful discussions on this topic means recognizing that simplistic slogans or ideological narratives miss the often complex issues that are important.

This simplistic argument doesn't make much sense. First of all, the implication is that men didn't benefit from excluding women from the workplace. This contradicts the feminist argument that they did benefit.



The main reason men put women to work in traditional male jobs is that men were of short supply because they kept political power under male dominance and were to incompetent to maintain peace.

Just another issue where men shoot themselves in the foot.

Regards
DL
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Thu 19 Mar, 2015 12:51 pm
@Greatest I am,
Quote:
The main reason men put women to work in traditional male jobs is that men were of short supply because they kept political power under male dominance and were to incompetent to maintain peace.


I am not sure what you mean by "maintain peace". Are you claiming that we are better at maintaining peace now that there are more women in the workplace? Do you have evidence that this is true?

And... you don't help the cause of women's rights by insisting that men are incompetent. Equality means men and women are equal.
Greatest I am
 
  2  
Reply Thu 19 Mar, 2015 12:52 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

The pay gap is a myth.


B.S.

My wife had to wait for years for the courts to rule in her favor before the company would kowtow to the law and implement same wage for same work.

Regards
DL
Greatest I am
 
  2  
Reply Thu 19 Mar, 2015 12:57 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
The main reason men put women to work in traditional male jobs is that men were of short supply because they kept political power under male dominance and were to incompetent to maintain peace.


I am not sure what you mean by "maintain peace". Are you claiming that we are better at maintaining peace now that there are more women in the workplace? Do you have evidence that this is true?



That is not what I mean. My comment was to the war years.

Looking at the longer term, the Goddess' ruled for about 20,000 years relatively peacefully and without the need of fortified cities till just before the Bronze Age.

That is when men and the male War Gods took over and we have basically been at war since.

That tells me that women are better and more peaceful leaders than men.

Regards
DL
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Thu 19 Mar, 2015 01:02 pm
@Greatest I am,
Did your wife ever take a break from work to raise children? If she did, how many years did she stay home to raise kids? You are going to have to provide so info for this to be believed.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Thu 19 Mar, 2015 01:04 pm
@Greatest I am,
Quote:

Looking at the longer term, the Goddess' ruled for about 20,000 years relatively peacefully and without the need of fortified cities till just before the Bronze Age.


Now you have my curiosity. Which Goddess are we talking about?

Quote:
That tells me that women are better and more peaceful leaders than men.


Have you ever heard of Margaret Thatcher?
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Thu 19 Mar, 2015 01:06 pm
@Greatest I am,
Quote:
Looking at the longer term, the Goddess' ruled for about 20,000 years relatively peacefully and without the need of fortified cities till just before the Bronze Age.

That is when men and the male War Gods took over and we have basically been at war since.

That tells me that women are better and more peaceful leaders than men.


What proof do you have to back this up? Humans have always been at war. From the time one caveman saw something he wanted from another caveman, war is as old a humanity it'self.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Mar, 2015 01:10 pm
I have a question for you Greatest...

Let's say your employer wants to fix the pay gap but didn't have any extra money for additional salary. So they decide to increase every woman's salary by 10% and decrease every man's salary by 10% across the board (this way the amount of money they are paying in salaries doesn't change either way).

Would you agree to a 10% decrease in your salary to support this?
Greatest I am
 
  2  
Reply Thu 19 Mar, 2015 01:35 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

Did your wife ever take a break from work to raise children? If she did, how many years did she stay home to raise kids? You are going to have to provide so info for this to be believed.


She did but what does that have to do with equal pay for the same work?

Seems that this is just deflecting from the issue, unless you think women should be penalized for providing children for our country.

Regards
DL
Greatest I am
 
  2  
Reply Thu 19 Mar, 2015 01:41 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Quote:

Looking at the longer term, the Goddess' ruled for about 20,000 years relatively peacefully and without the need of fortified cities till just before the Bronze Age.


Now you have my curiosity. Which Goddess are we talking about?

Quote:
That tells me that women are better and more peaceful leaders than men.


Have you ever heard of Margaret Thatcher?



Yes. She was what, one of the 1% of female leaders throughout our 6,000 years of male dominated war history?

As to the Goddesses before the male War Gods, that would depend on which country you are thinking of. There was more than one and many are not named as people could not write.

They could produce many artifacts though that show the truth of my statement.

This scholarly link is a dreary watch but worth it if you are into this issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU1bEmq_pf0

Regards
DL


maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Thu 19 Mar, 2015 01:42 pm
@Greatest I am,
Quote:
As to the Goddesses before the male War Gods, that would depend on which country you are thinking of. There was more than one and many are not named as people could not write.


Please name one.
Greatest I am
 
  2  
Reply Thu 19 Mar, 2015 01:45 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

Quote:
Looking at the longer term, the Goddess' ruled for about 20,000 years relatively peacefully and without the need of fortified cities till just before the Bronze Age.

That is when men and the male War Gods took over and we have basically been at war since.

That tells me that women are better and more peaceful leaders than men.


What proof do you have to back this up? Humans have always been at war. From the time one caveman saw something he wanted from another caveman, war is as old a humanity it'self.


I put a link above.

You are right that as evolving creatures we both cooperate and as you say, compete.

Organized warfare other than small tribal wars to replenish women for a tribe did not happen though until we created weapons that were powerful enough to kill en mass.

Most small tribes learned quickly that trading was better than killing each other. At least that is how I see the history.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  2  
Reply Thu 19 Mar, 2015 01:49 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I have a question for you Greatest...

Let's say your employer wants to fix the pay gap but didn't have any extra money for additional salary. So they decide to increase every woman's salary by 10% and decrease every man's salary by 10% across the board (this way the amount of money they are paying in salaries doesn't change either way).

Would you agree to a 10% decrease in your salary to support this?



I never say no to money but would still advocate for equality.

If one of the women happens to be my wife, I would likely do better to just have her make whatever I am making. That would be more fair. Right?

Regards
DL


0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Thu 19 Mar, 2015 01:51 pm
@Greatest I am,
Marija Gimbutas is ridiculous. I just read up a little on her crazy theories. She is basically putting modern 20th century values onto her idea of what neolithic society should have been like.

She is not widely accepted by archaeologists because it is clear she is does not have real evidence behind the claims she is making.

I laughed when I read her basic theory is based on the fact that you see more weapons and fortifications in the Bronze Age than you had before the Bronze Age. But, there is a very good reason for this (other than the theory that men are bad). I will give you a hint... there is a reason it is called the Bronze Age.

Greatest I am
 
  2  
Reply Thu 19 Mar, 2015 01:56 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
As to the Goddesses before the male War Gods, that would depend on which country you are thinking of. There was more than one and many are not named as people could not write.


Please name one.


As I said, they could not write so I cannot name them. I do have a modern one though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS3Do6KqYPc

You should also know that most of the male Gods on offer today began as androgynous beings. The Eastern God mostly still are while the Western Gods were morphed from androgynous to male by our misogynous Western religions. Christianity and Islam have basically tried to take women or the feminine aspects of God right out of their religions.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
 

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