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the word order of the verbs.

 
 
Reply Mon 16 Feb, 2015 10:44 am
Hi everybody,

First of all Let me tell you that I am not a native English speaker. As I know, the word order of the verbs is like that: Tom(gave,sent,passed,lent, showed ) somebody+something or something to somebody. And my question is this: Do all the verbs in English Grammar follow this rule? Or Do only the verbs given above (gave,sent ...) follow this rule?

Many thanks in advance,
English is awsome
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jespah
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Feb, 2015 10:58 am
@englishawsome,
For active voice, yes, they're pretty much all like that. I'm qualifying my statement as someone inevitably comes along in three years and posts some obscure exception.

  • Tom walked to school.
  • Tom ran a race.
  • Tom sang a song.
  • Tom did his homework.

You get the idea.

However, for passive voice, you can rearrange like this:
  • The school that Tom walked to ...
  • The race that Tom ran ...
  • The song that Tom sang ...
  • The homework that Tom did ...

But note that I'm using an ellipsis at the end of each of the examples in the second list. The reason why I'm doing that is because those aren't really complete thoughts. They're more like phrases. E. g. "The race that Tom ran" is a lot of description about a race. For your full sentence, it might be something like "The race that Tom ran was held on a Wednesday."

See how clunky passive voice is? It is correct English, but it can be hard to read. There is a place for passive voice, but usually active voice (the samples in the first group) is preferred. It's easier to read and it feels more decisive.

I hope this makes sense.

PS Thank you for asking about our language! Smile
layman
 
  0  
Reply Mon 16 Feb, 2015 11:04 am
@jespah,
Good answer, Jespah.
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englishawsome
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2015 05:12 am
@jespah,
Thanks anyway, but I am confused. You did far so much work to answer my question and spent much time posting an answer. Your answer seems to me to be rather difficult to understand. As far as I understood The word order of the verbs follows that rule only passive voice. Thanks for your reply to my question anyway! And by the way I made a terrible mistake while writing my profile. I feel deep shame for that mistake. I shoud have written ENGLISHISAWESOME

Sincerely,
English is awesome
englishawsome
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2015 05:14 am
@jespah,
And I am terribly sorry for not understanding your answer!
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layman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2015 05:26 am
@englishawsome,
Quote:
As far as I understood The word order of the verbs follows that rule only passive voice.


Quote:
And I am terribly sorry for not understanding your answer!


I think you understood him fine, awesome. He's simply saying that you "can" reverse the order (in which case it becomes the "passive voice") but that such usage is not the norm and, as a general rule, is not the preferred usage.
englishawsome
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Feb, 2015 06:10 am
@layman,
Dear layman, thanks!

English is awesome
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imawonderingwhy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2015 10:56 am
@jespah,
Englishisawesome wrote: As I know, the word order of the verbs is like that: Tom(gave,sent,passed,lent, showed ) somebody+something or something to somebody. And my question is this: Do all the verbs in English Grammar follow this rule? Or Do only the verbs given above (gave,sent ...) follow this rule?

======================

This student is asking about word order as it relates to what is often described as the dative. This doesn't really have anything specifically to do with the active or passive voice.

++++++++++++++++++

Jespah wrote: See how clunky passive voice is? It is correct English, but it can be hard to read. There is a place for passive voice, but usually active voice (the samples in the first group) is preferred. It's easier to read and it feels more decisive.

-----------

These are all nonsensical, but very common notions about the passive.

What's hard to read about,

"The race that Tom ran was held on a Wednesday."?

It's a perfect example of a reply being used to set someone straight on a mistaken belief they hold.

There most assuredly is a place for the passive and there are myriad reasons for its use. "ease of reading" is not one of them. The active could be more decisive but a blanket statement that it always is is simply false.

A: Tom ran his race on Tuesday.

B: Uh, noooo. The race that Tom ran was held on a Wednesday.

What B says is more pointed and the choice of the passive could also be because B's focus has shifted to "the race" as the important topic.






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imawonderingwhy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2015 11:05 am
@englishawsome,
Englishisawesome: Do all the verbs in English Grammar follow this rule? Or Do only the verbs given above (gave,sent ...) follow this rule?

--------------------------------------

No, all English verbs do not follow this pattern - give Sb something/give Sth to Sb.

Verbs of direction, with direct and indirect objects follow these patterns.

I sent the package to him.

I gave her the paper.

As you can see these issues are pretty complex. It's better for you as a student to practice the ones you know in as rich a context as is possible rather than trying to figure out the grammatical rules/social reasons we use them.


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