Is there a possible universe where the laws of logic and math are different from what we know?

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Lustig Andrei wrote:

There's only one thing in that screed with which I disagree, Fil. 'Reality' is subjective. What seems 'real' to you, may seem like a fantasy to me. What seems 'real' to me may be a hallucination to you. (I use the word 'seems' because none of us know, or can know, what the ultimate reality actually is.)

But the thing is that REALITY may be something completely divorced from what it "seems" to you or me or anyone.

Whatever REALITY is...it cannot be subjective...it has to be objective, because whatever it is...it IS.

It appears none of us knows what the ultimate REALITY is...but that does not mean that what it "seems" to us...is a subjective reality. It simply is what reality seems to us to be.

But the REALITY is whatever it actually IS.

Y'know, Frank, that comes awfully close to being comprehensible. Almost.

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Gibberish !

http://static.sfdict.com/staticrep/dictaudio/B00/B0051600.mp3?clickid=318cb2a555abf0529b6bdb1fe3231395

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@aja2015,

Yes this is why the multiverse theory exists. Lets look back at the beginning. BANG! The tiny little point begins to expand into what we know to be the universe today but lets say gravity was a little bit higher than the constant we actually know it to be, then swoosh the universe collapses back in on itself. Our universe had just the perfect speed of light, gravitational constant ect ect for the universe to form. Now as scientists do not believe in happenstance this cannot be as unlikely as it seems? There is no way that this is the only universe but yet has the perfect conditions to both form, function and contain life? The only soloution that appears to present itself suggests that there must be many other universes that have there own seperate laws. Now as this number must be near infinite so some must be like ours, others collapsed in on themselves as soon as they were formed, in one we probably all live off cockroaches cause there all thats left and yes it's possible in at least one mathmatics is fundamentally different? But I suppose the real truth is we have no clue whats in the others or if they are even there, we cannot really prove it ( at least not with current technology) so your guess is as good as mine and is as good as that cockroach's

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@Lustig Andrei,

Lustig Andrei wrote:

Paradox and contradiction are part and parcel of our experience, dale, or we wouldn't be able to entertain the concepts. Is it possible that I am wrong about this? Of course. Anything is possible; therefire nothing is impossible.

This , Anything is possible; therefore nothing is impossible is not logical at all.

For example :

A tree cannot become stainless steel

1 Reply

North, going south, wrote:

A tree cannot become stainless steel

It's quite possible to imagine it can, based on the knowledge we have on nuclear transmutation: lead and bismuth can be changed into gold.

Maybe not right now but in a not so far future.

I admit that the other way around can be a lot more difficult.

1 Reply

@north,

Anyway

This Universe of different laws of logic and mathematics is confusing the two.

Unless you are talking about the logic of Mathematics in this Universe .

Mathematics is based on the geometry or shapes , three dimensionally , in any Universe .

Otherwise Logic can be found in Universe

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@timur,

timur wrote:

North, going south, wrote:
A tree cannot become stainless steel
It's quite possible to imagine it can, based on the knowledge we have on nuclear transmutation: lead and bismuth can be changed into gold.

Maybe not right now but in a not so far future.

I admit that the other way around can be a lot more difficult.

Your example is logically flawed

A tree is a living thing , neither bismuth or lead is a living or alive thing

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Quote:

Your example is logically flawed

A tree is a living thing , neither bismuth or lead is a living or alive thing

You obviously don't have the slightest idea that even the living matter is composed of atoms and molecules.

Therefore changing the number of electrons and protons on the atom changes its intrinsic nature.

That the living thing will become inert, that's inherent to the process.

1 Reply

@timur,

timur wrote:

Quote:
Your example is logically flawed

A tree is a living thing , neither bismuth or lead is a living or alive thing
You obviously don't have the slightest idea that even the living matter is composed of atoms and molecules.

Therefore changing the number of electrons and protons on the atom changes its intrinsic nature.

That the living thing will become inert, that's inherent to the process.

But how do you get living cells to become stainless steel ?

And living at the same time ?

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North wrote:

But how do you get living cells to become stainless steel ?

I told you already, by transmutation. Click on my previous link.

and wrote:

And living at the same time ?

No, I answered that here:

Timur wrote:

That the living thing will become inert, that's inherent to the process.

1 Reply

@timur,

timur wrote:

North wrote:
But how do you get living cells to become stainless steel ?
I told you already, by transmutation. Click on my previous link.

Nonsence

and wrote:

And living at the same time ?

No, I answered that here:

Timur wrote:

That the living thing will become inert, that's inherent to the process.

But not part of the living

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Well, if you are not ready to understand what I've been telling you or read the link, than that's it..

1 Reply

@timur,

timur wrote:

Well, if you are not ready to understand what I've been telling you or read the link, than that's it..

You are full of BS

You are trying to compare living with non- living

1 Reply

@north,

You really are not understanding, I'm not doing such thing.

I told you already that changing the atoms of the living matter makes them becoming inert (dead)..

Calling bullshit what is being done in research labs is just showing the limits of your comprehension.

1 Reply

@timur,

timur wrote:

You really are not understanding, I'm not doing such thing.

I told you already that changing the atoms of the living matter makes them becoming inert (dead)..

Calling bullshit what is being done in research labs is just showing the limits of your comprehension.

Transformation is everyday .

What your asking me to think upon is that a tree could become living stainless steel , tree

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There are ways in which water is totally different from air and ways in which is just like it...whatever maths there might be and whatever patterns there might be they all patterns anyway...

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This is pretty much like asking if there is a way for white to turn black...obviously the answer is no there isn't.
...and it has nothing to do with how much maths our own bubble Universe lacks or has from the "realm" of complete mathematics...

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Is there a possible universe where the laws of logic and math are different from what we know?

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