US War on ISIS is Vietnam all over AGAIN

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This is what happens when political leaders start a war when everyone knows they are not willing to let the military do what it would take to win.

This is going to be such an embarrassment.

The Professor and his inability to correctly evaluate strikes again.

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Type: Discussion • Score: 6 • Views: 817 • Replies: 27

[+3] - Alqaholic - 10/14/2014Totally destroying them is out of the question. But trying to aid in the stability of region by allowing a moderate non sectarian government to flourish holds the only hope of anything remotely...
[+3] - Alqaholic - 10/15/2014It's not too late, yet. Highly pressuring U.S and its allies to cut all support to "moderate" rebels who are trying to topple Assad is a start. Since these "moderate" rebels...

@hawkeye10,

And what would it take to win, exactly?

Obama in macho gear on an aircraft carrier, proclaiming "Mission accomplished" ?

We had that with Bush and he lost. So? What now?

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@Lordyaswas,

Quote:

And what would it take to win, exactly?

Cut through all the political mire, and the solution is pretty straight forward.
-Give Syrian gov. the support it needs to push ISIS out of the territory.
-For the American hand in covert regime change policies, hold U.S accountable since covert wars of aggression are still wars of aggression, in other words a war crime.
-Cut support to all groups that are attempting to topple Assad.

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@Alqaholic,

Out of the territory into where, exactly?

Do you mean totally destroy ISIS, like we all did with the Taliban?

I wonder where they are now?

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@Lordyaswas,

Totally destroying them is out of the question. But trying to aid in the stability of region by allowing a moderate non sectarian government to flourish holds the only hope of anything remotely resembling democracy in the future. If ISIS take over Syria, they'll take the helm and do everything in their power to continue spreading their ideology as far as they possibly can.

1 Reply

@Alqaholic,

Alqaholic wrote:

Totally destroying them is out of the question. But trying to aid in the stability of region by allowing a moderate non sectarian government to flourish holds the only hope of anything remotely resembling democracy in the future. If ISIS take over Syria, they'll take the helm and do everything in their power to continue spreading their ideology as far as they possibly can.

You use moderate when speaking of Syria?

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@roger,

It's all relative. Lesser of two evils, and things as such.

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@Alqaholic,

So what will the neighbouring armies and air forces all be doing whilst the Americans and Europeans go in and get called murderers and crusaders?

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@Lordyaswas,

More questions.

If the region had not one single drop of oil, would the west be bothered enough to do anything about it?

Who is paying for the West to go in and sort it out? Halliburton won't donate their stuff, y'know.

How does Saudi stand on this? How firm is their support?

If it is a joint action on the ground, will the USA expect to be in charge?

How will that go down in the region?

What will the boundary maps look like afterwards? How will the Kurds fare in all this, for instance?

How would Russia react? China?

It's not all about Yankee Doodle any more, thanks to Bush and his poodle. Far more complicated than that.

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@Lordyaswas,

To clear it up, when I meant support I didn't mean air strikes or boots on the ground. Air strikes won't faze these guerrilla fighters who cut their teeth in urban warfare, and they will just disperse to conceal themselves even more. An air strikes won't make any sense in the first place since they aren't an established state power, so that takes out any possibility of striking key infrastructures and government buildings.
As for ground troops, that's also a lost cause. I mean, sure the military can go head to head with the ISIS in street to street battles and may even succeed in fully occupying Syria and Iraq for some years, but eventually they'll have to leave, and it's obvious what'll happen next.

When I said, "Give Syrian gov. the support it needs to push ISIS out of the territory" it was obvious this support (in the form of equipment, training, and intelligence) isn't coming from U.S or any other NATO country for that matter. But there are a number of nations who have a tactical interest in preventing another regime change and the chaos that will ensue; including some "neighboring armies" and Russia and China as well.

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@Alqaholic,

Quote:

Give Syrian gov. the support it needs to push ISIS out of the territory"

Syria is ruble now, so that is a long bit late. We should have helped Assad put down the rebels, we should have let Saddam be, we should have let Gaddafi be, the Egyptian Military flat out ignored the US and even thumbed their nose at us by letting Iran use the Suez Canal....and it is a damn good thing they did because if the Obama Brain Trust had had their way then Egypt would look like Libya right now.

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@hawkeye10,

It's not too late, yet.
Highly pressuring U.S and its allies to cut all support to "moderate" rebels who are trying to topple Assad is a start. Since these "moderate" rebels are forcing Assad to fight the war on multiple fronts, which in the long run only strengthens ISIS.

1 Reply

@Alqaholic,

I see what you are saying.

The area is a total mess. Power vacuums everywhere. Ethnic/Religious divisions everywhere. Oil nearly everywhere.

Where on earth did the Bush administration learn to play chess?

It is my view that the puppet Bush and poodle Blair were played for suckers by big conglomerates from day one of this whole fiasco.

I now think that whatever we do, or delude ourselves into thinking we could do, there will be utter chaos and numerous atrocities committed across the entire region for many years to come.

The only way out, as I see it, is to find other forms of energy asap so that the oil factor becomes reduntant.

If the western world had been seiously serious about this thirty/forty/fifty years ago, then the middle east would not have been invaded or meddled with in the first place.

The writing was on the wall with the whole Suez crisis. You think we would have sat up and taken notice way back then, but.....

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Quote:

Retired Army Lt. Col. John Nagl literally helped to write the book on counterinsurgency field strategy for the Army and Marine Corps during the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

But for all the lessons that the U.S. military has learned through the wars of the 21st Century, Nagl said President Obama’s strategy to defeat ISIS in Iraq and Syria without any ground forces won’t work.

“It clearly isn't working,” Nagl told “Top Line” in an interview. “We do have about 1,600 American troops on the ground, but they're staying well back from the front lines. That's a big part of the reason why the Iraqi forces are not able to take on and really defeat the ISIS forces.”

Though Nagl said he understands President Obama’s reluctance to commit combat troops at a time when the American people are war weary, he said the mission of defeating ISIS can’t be accomplished without 15,000 to 20,000 U.S. ground forces.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/power-players-abc-news/counterinsurgency-expert--beating-isis-will-require-u-s--ground-troops-in-iraq-230548829.html

What we have have here is yet another massive miscalculation from The Professor.

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@hawkeye10,

Lt Col Nagl is babbling without a clue. He's suggesting a way to make things much worse - and, yes, they are going to get much much worse if the US puts boots on the ground.

1 Reply

@Alqaholic,

My, my.

You are very intelligent.

I just cannot see any issues in your words. You are simply a strategic guru. I admire that greatly, especially when we're considering what you're strategically accounting for. It's brilliance, I say.

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@roger,

Quote:

You use moderate when speaking of Syria?

Count the number of countries illegally invaded, the number of innocents slaughtered, Roger, who will once again be the dodger, and you will quickly see that compared to the USA, Syria is indeed much much much more moderate.

{Roger will now perform his world famous disappearing act}

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

Retired Army Lt. Col. John Nagl literally helped to write the book on counterinsurgency field strategy for the Army and Marine Corps during the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

What makes y'all so fond of quoting war criminals. You don't see Thomas or Walter or CJ quoting Goering or Hitler.

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@hawkeye10,

And this incredible propensity to brag about your war crimes, simply amazing!

The usa's actions in Iraq are simply a continuation of the massive set of war crimes that was started by your previous village idiot president back in, what the hell was it, 2003?

1 Reply

@JTT,

I'll bite.

America went to Iraq for WMD "after" the WTC was attacked by terrorists a year later.

Why did they say there was WMD? Your best guess is?

1 Reply

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