God's Presence on Earth through His Spirit (Scripture & Photos Examined)

@izzythepush,

And! . . .
There's more! . . . .

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@Frank Apisa,

Are you talking about 2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is inspired . . . "?

Meaning, for Squeaky's info. . .

If it ain't in the scriptures, it ain't scriptural.

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@Frank Apisa,

Jesus taught that many would rise up in his name and lead a large number astray (Matthew 24:5) There are also many scriptures instructing us to guard ourselves against false doctrines causing divisions and sects, notably 1John 4:1 states: "do not believe everyone who claims to speak by the Spirit. You must test them to see if the spirit they have comes from God. For there are many false prophets in the world."
You would need to test it against something, I have personally elected to use the bible as my source material. If a religion teaches that it's holy book is the word of it's god, and yet it does not comply entirely with it, then it is not complying entirely with its god and therefore unlikely to be acceptable, especially if it's god is the God of the bible.

On this basis, I would assert that lore and tradition are not in themselves an issue, so long as they do not contradict or go against scripture.

Personally I will never claim I have a perfect understanding, or empirical truth, I am working with my best guess, which I base mainly upon the words of the bobble, as Setanta so eloquently puts it. I have a model of understanding which gives me confidence, but I am always happy to examine the understanding of others. If it doesn't work in my mind as a viable model, I will put it to one side.

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@Smileyrius,

The OP is a significant understanding of the Holy Spirit.

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@Smileyrius,

Smileyrius wrote:

On this basis, I would assert that lore and tradition are not in themselves an issue, so long as they do not contradict or go against scripture.

Well...since the notion of "the trinity" has been around almost from the first days of Christianity...and is well established in lore and tradition, I was wondering why you questioned as you did in your post:

http://able2know.org/topic/255975-21#post-5810830

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank, why do you even bother discussing Christianity when you are not even Christian?

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@Patches,

Patches wrote:

Frank, why do you even bother discussing Christianity when you are not even Christian?

Is that a serious question...or did you just go insane?

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@Frank Apisa,

There are countless beliefs hat have made their way into mainstream Christianity, including pagan rites and celebrations, specific references to other Gods, idolatry, deification of man, voodoo and witchcraft etc, they were also influenced on a theological level quite heavily by the Greeks. Even in ancient Israel they borrowed many beliefs and idols from surrounding nations and were heavily influenced by the Egyptians. If you accepted every belief that was adopted into Christianity along the road we would be so far removed from the teachings in the bible that we might as well take up the order of the Jedi.

I know of the Babylonian origin of the Trinity, a theme adopted by many religions since, and I do not believe it to be scripturally viable, however I asked the question in the manner that I did, purely because I like to encourage conversation and explore what others believe, and who knows, I might just learn something. I quite enjoy discussing them in good spirit, it gets me studying, and I like to keep people on their toes as to why they believe what they believe.
If I was feeling less tactful, Id probably look to write something along the lines of "until I see some scriptural evidence for your statement, I will place it in a sandwich with the rest of my baloney"

1 Reply

@Smileyrius,

Smileyrius wrote:

There are countless beliefs hat have made their way into mainstream Christianity, including pagan rites and celebrations, specific references to other Gods, idolatry, deification of man, voodoo and witchcraft etc, they were also influenced on a theological level quite heavily by the Greeks. Even in ancient Israel they borrowed many beliefs and idols from surrounding nations and were heavily influenced by the Egyptians. If you accepted every belief that was adopted into Christianity along the road we would be so far removed from the teachings in the bible that we might as well take up the order of the Jedi.

I know of the Babylonian origin of the Trinity, a theme adopted by many religions since, and I do not believe it to be scripturally viable, however I asked the question in the manner that I did, purely because I like to encourage conversation and explore what others believe, and who knows, I might just learn something. I quite enjoy discussing them in good spirit, it gets me studying, and I like to keep people on their toes as to why they believe what they believe.
If I was feeling less tactful, Id probably look to write something along the lines of "until I see some scriptural evidence for your statement, I will place it in a sandwich with the rest of my baloney"

So...tradition and lore from the inception of Christianity do not count for you...even though you said they did.

I get that...and that is your right.

As I said...very weird, though.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Much of tradition and lore entered into Christianity through the multitudes of nations and cultures that accepted it, as it expanded vastly, many of it's teachers would have been very new to the faith, so it is natural that some of these would have shown cultural influences in their teachings perhaps fusing the two together, which is why every inspired expression needed to be tested against scripture, which leads me back to my statement

Quote:

I would assert that lore and tradition are not in themselves an issue, so long as they do not contradict or go against scripture

I am odd though, you're not the first to point it out Very Happy

1 Reply

@Smileyrius,

Smileyrius wrote:

Much of tradition and lore entered into Christianity through the multitudes of nations and cultures that accepted it, as it expanded vastly, many of it's teachers would have been very new to the faith, so it is natural that some of these would have shown cultural influences in their teachings perhaps fusing the two together, which is why every inspired expression needed to be tested against scripture, which leads me back to my statement

Quote:
I would assert that lore and tradition are not in themselves an issue, so long as they do not contradict or go against scripture

I am odd though, you're not the first to point it out

Well there is the added note that I was raised a Catholic...where tradition definitely counts as much as "scripture."

The very earliest Christians had a wealth of lore and tradition...only a small part of which was codified into what you term scripture.

The notion that there could be "scripture"...is part of that tradition. There is nothing in "scripture" that tells you what the Christians could include and exclude from scripture.

In any case, you have answered my question, Smiley...and done it seriously and courteously. I thank you for that.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

You're welcome my friend, anytime

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@Patches,

Patches wrote:

Frank, why do you even bother discussing Christianity when you are not even Christian?

You should meet Squeakybro.
http://able2know.org/topic/257577-4#post-5811343
He claims to be christian.

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@neologist,

I don't understand, if a person claims to be a Christian, he may not know scripture well or error in sin, but I believe that he generally is.

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@Patches,

I would hazard that very few Christians know the entire bible, and that every Christian errs in sin. I would also hazard that Neo would agree.

I believe the complication here arises from your differences in the way you define Christian

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@Smileyrius,

No Christian knows the entire bible. And I agree that all Christians err in sin to a greater or lessor degree, although we are suppose to try not to.

A Christian is a believer in Christ.

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@Patches,

No Christian knows the entire bible? or no Christian understands the entire bible?
I think the latter is far more likely than the former. the existence of eidetic and photographic memories make the former a very plausible scenario.

Can a man believe in Jesus and not be a Christian?

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Smileyrius and Patches...

...what exactly do you mean with the expression "believe in Christ" or "believe in Jesus?"

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

It appears that, for this discussion, they are being used interchangably

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@Patches,

Patches wrote:

A Christian is a believer in Christ.

Demons believe (James 2:19)

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God's Presence on Earth through His Spirit (Scripture & Photos Examined)

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