Reply
Wed 27 Aug, 2014 03:37 pm
Here is a good one:
Quote:President Reagan entered office when the Soviet Union was the great threat. He saw Moscow as the center of evil in the world. He was determined to defeat and not merely contain the Soviet Union.
Through moral persuasion, a powerful military buildup, a grand anti-communist coalition, and an intense focus on a series of economic, diplomatic and psychological strategies, Reagan defeated the Soviet empire and it disappeared.
This was one of the most extraordinary grand strategic achievements in history. It took enormous discipline and focus.
Newt Gingrich
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/27/opinion/gingrich-isis-reagan/index.html?hpt=hp_t3
@Frank Apisa,
IN fairness whenever the D's want to do anything they pull out the kids charge card as well. I am impressed here that Newt cant even say " the visionary Reagan took a leadership role in staring down the USSR leading to its collapse under its own weight", which was at least arguably true. No, Ronnie single handedly slayed the beast according the the historian Newt Gingrich.
All of the major weapons systems deployed by the Soviet Union in the 1980s were already ready for deployment or in the final stages of development and testing before Reagan was elected--the Sukhoi 25, the MiG 25 and 29, the T72 tank, and the newest models of SAM systems and BMP and BTR armored personnel carriers. The Soviet Union had invaded Afghanistan in 1978, before it was even known that Reagan would run in 1980. They were already increasing the military presence in the Warsaw pact countries in response to what they considered "unrest," such as the Solidarity movement in Poland. They had already sent not just troops, but the elite Spetsnaz GRU, military intelligence special forces, into the Baltic states in response to calls there for independence.
What lead to the fall of the soviet union was the election of Mikhail Gorbachev to the chairmanship of the Supreme Soviet and of the Politburo of the Soviet Union. Gorbachev's policies of Perestroika (restructuring, rolled at the XXVIIth party congress in 1986), and Glasnost (often translated as "openness," it literally means "publicity") two years later. Glasnost in particular undermined the Soviet System as it allowed a much wider range of free speech and freedom of the press. It also, in combination with Perestroika, lead to wider private ownership of land and businesses, and encouraged Russia's first halting steps toward entrepreneurship. Gorbachev was the first chairman of the central committee to have been born after the October revolution (which took place in November, 1917, by our calendar).
Gingrich is just codifying conservative scripture as revealed truth. The claim for Reagan bringing down the Soviet Union is the equivalent of the rooster who stands on the dung heap and believes that his crowing has caused the sun to rise.
@Setanta,
So far as I know no one has come right out and said that there was extreme luck that Gorbachev was in charge, according to the West because he did the right thing when few others would, and according to Putin and the Chinese because he is an idiot.
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:.. . according to Putin and the Chinese because he is an idiot.
Have you got some support for that claim? Gorbachev's policies lead directly to the formation of the Russian plutocracy which Putin has personally exploited to enrich himself--as i pointed out in another thread, with substantiating links, he is considered by many to be the richest man in Europe. As for China, i'd say they benefited from the example of Perestroika, and, after the debacle of the democracy movement in Tiananmen Square, saw their way clear to begin implementing a blend of capitalism and a command economy.
@Setanta,
Putin said at several points that the end of the USSR was an unnecessary disaster, as well current efforts to prosecute Gorbachev could not happen without Putin support. Last week the interpreter for Dien Xiaoping said the Gorbachev was viewed as a fool by the Chinese leader.
@hawkeye10,
Have you got links to back that up?
EDIT: Even it that were true, as i've already pointed out, Putin and "China" have been the beneficiaries of Gorbachev's policies. That makes it a classic case of biting ther hand that feeds you. In particular, Putin, as a KGB officer, and a not particularly high-ranking one, would never have reached the pinnacle of wealth and power that he has under the Soviet system. Sounds to me as though he's just playing to the elderly, conservative crowd who regret the passing of the Soviet Union.
From the Wikipedia biography of Vladimir Putin:
Quote:Putin resigned from the active state security services with the rank of lieutenant colonel on 20 August 1991 (with some attempts to resign made earlier),[34] on the second day of the KGB-supported abortive putsch against Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev.[35] Putin later explained his decision: "As soon as the coup began, I immediately decided which side I was on", though he also noted that the choice was hard because he had spent the best part of his life with "the organs".[36] In 1999, he described the Soviet Union as "a blind alley, far away from the mainstream of civilization."[37] (emphasis aded)
I ordinarily don't leave the footnote citations in such a post, but i left them in this so that you can go check the articles sources, rather than just dismissing Wikipedia because it is inconvenient to your screed.
@Setanta,
Here is someone who argues that even today Gorbachev is an idiot
Quote:Finally, Gorbachev entire argument rests on the premise that it would have even been possible for him to keep the Soviet Union united. In that regard it’s interesting to note where he places the blame for the break up of the Soviet Union:
Quote:Contrary to what is sometimes asserted, the Soviet Union was not destroyed by any foreign power but as a result of internal developments. First, in August 1991 the anti-perestroika conservative forces organized a coup against my leadership that failed but weakened my position. Then, on December 8, defying the will of the people, who had supported renewal of the union in a referendum in March 1991, the leaders of three Soviet republics—Russian President Boris Yeltsin and the leaders of Ukraine and Belorussia—meeting in secret, abolished the Union.
Gorbachev is correct that the coup in August 1991 was the final event that set the USSR down the road to destruction, but he’s naive if he thinks that the breakup would not have happened if the coup had not occurred. The coup occurred largely because the conservative forces in Soviet government, most of them people Gorbachev had considered allies, perceived correctly that the nation was falling apart around them. The overthrow of pro-Soviet regimes in Eastern Europe, which was common knowledge inside the Soviet Union thanks to glasnost, caused the fire of independence to spread to the Republics. First it was the Baltic states, whose loyalty was tenuous at best, but it would have inevitably spread elsewhere. Once the coup occurred and Gorbachev was revealed to be the paper tiger he had become at that point, the collapse of his nation was inevitable. The socialist economic system had already failed, the communist political system wasn’t far behind.
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/mikhail-gorbachev-the-world-would-be-better-if-the-ussr-was-still-around/
@hawkeye10,
Perhaps you can isolate and highlight the portion of the text in which the author states that Gorbachev is an idiot. Your "someone" is a blogger who claims to be a libertarian and who relies on strawman accusations against "liberals," "conservatives" and the American people as a whole.
Another sterling Whackeye performance.
Stumble It!
Tweet This
Bookmark on Delicious
Share on Facebook
Share on MySpace