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Fri 15 Aug, 2014 09:08 am
Here’s my recent experience in rural Ashtabula County Ohio. To make way for a new shed I burned down the two old ones. I had a responsible adult
to help me; we had a hose and a water supply handy. There is no law in my town preventing this. The wind was moderate, but blowing in the general direction of (but not directly at) my home about 30 yards away. The fire did spread somewhat, but we kept it contained.
Then we hear the sirens and the fire department arrives. Not the one from my township, the department from a neighboring town. By this time the fire had burned down to where any chance of spreading was slim. And the burned area surrounding the fire (from when it did spread but was contained) made spreading further unlikely. I met the firemen at the end of the drive and told them in effect, everything is under control; I’m sorry you were bothered for nothing. I did not wait for a reply but returned to the fire. The fireman who appered to be in charge came uninvited and said the fire must be put out. I wanted it to remain burning to consume more of the remains. But I didn’t object. After the fire was out one fireman said he needed information from me. I declined to provide any. The fireman called the sherriff. I gave the sherriff my name, identified myself as the property owner, but I only said it was a controlled burn and nothing further. I closed the door and did not speak again. Important lesson here: You are NOT required to answer questions even if others are required to ask; always say as little as possible.
My Question: Could I have refused to let the fire department estinguish the fire?
@Prospex,
Why is it the whiners never have a clue of what they are talking about.
In Ohio, at least, the Ohio EPA sets the rules on open burning NOT the county or municipality. I would point you to the site where the information can be found INCLUDING the permit to use to get permission for an open fire, but that would just rain on your "pity me" parade.
Also in Ohio, as in most states the highest ranking firefighter on the scene OWNS IT. He has authority at the scene even over law enforcement (exception in certain very limited scenarios). Many states actually give the fire commander limited arrest authority. Had you impeded the fire department in any way he probably could have arrested you, although generally they just call for police backup, as they would be the ones to take you to jail.
I have a suggestion: we have enough problems in Ohio, perhaps you could move to Massachusetts or Oregon where they celebrate whiners. I pity your neighbors.
@Zarathustra,
Here's a better question: why is it jerks like you see everything as whining? I was just asking if I could have refused. If the answer is no, just say "No, the ranking firefighter has the authority to extinguish the fire". I was annoyed but not bitter about it; I even offered to let them refill the tanker from my pond. Also I get along great with my neighbors. We ride quads together.
I don't think you can refuse the fire department regarding a fire. That's a public safety issue, they need to make sure the fire is actually contained. They can't take a chance a resident is adequately trained to extinguish a fire. If you were mistaken, it's on them.
Quote:Prospex asked: Could I have refused to let the fire department estinguish the fire?
If they thought the fire was a risk to the neighbourhood and put it out, the law would probably be on their side because they were just doing their job.
If you'd refused to let them put it out you might have got in hot water for obstructing them.
PS- the only whiners are the ones who stuck their noses in and called the fire brigade, unless they genuinely thought there was a house on fire or something..
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:
Quote:Prospex asked: Could I have refused to let the fire department estinguish the fire?
If they thought the fire was a risk to the neighbourhood and put it out, the law would probably be on their side because they were just doing their job.
If you'd refused to let them put it out you might have got in hot water for obstructing them.
PS- the only whiners are the ones who stuck their noses in and called the fire brigade..
Romeo,
Apparently you are unaware of the number of destructive fires in the United States. Three years ago, hundreds of acres of dry undeveloped woodlands on the Easter Shore of Maryland were destroyed after someone set off fireworks and lit the whole place up. There were homes affected, people evacuated, it was frightening for those of us with relatives over there. Maryland also prohibits burning leaves and any other 'controlled fire' outside other than BBQ pits. They also have to be located away from the house, garage or any over hanging objects. There is no way to know how many animals are destroyed in these fires. No one can afford to ignore a fire. Chances are, someone saw smoke from a distance and alerted the fire department.
I'm agreeing with Prospex re Zarathustras's tone on the comments, though probably correct.
We have a long time member here who hasn't posted in a while who is part of a volunteer fire group; hope he sees this and weighs in.
Thanks Osso, for pointing this thread out to me.
For some background, I am a Lt. on a local volunteer fire dept here in western Ky.
Yes, you could have refused the fire dept, but that has limits.
If there was anything in that fire that the ranking officer on the FD considered dangerous, such as anything oil based (foam, plastic, or anything else that produces a thick black smoke), then the FD can and will pull a hose and extinguish the fire.
Once the FD arrives on a scene, it becomes their scene.
Someone said that the FD can overrule law enforcement on a scene, and that is true, there are no exceptions to that.
As for refusing to answer questions, the FD needs those questions answered for their reports, and if they extinguish the fire, they need that info to get paid.
I am on a volunteer FD, so when we extinguish a fire, we usually bill the homeowners insurance.
Whoever called the FD did so because they saw the smoke, not because they were being a busybody.
Its better to call the FD for nothing instead of not calling them when they are needed.
You need to check with your states EPA about what you can or cannot burn,
Here in KY the EPA can fine you up to $25,000 for burning any prohibited items.
I hope that helps.
A tribute to all firemen-
As London burns under a rain of Nazi bombs...
..the firemen stand their ground..
@mysteryman,
Thank you mysteryman; your answer makes sense.
My point in refusing to answer, and I understand your position, it that this was on the fire dept. They were unneeded and uncalled (by me at least). everything wasunde control; they took it upont themselves to intervene. So I say it is on them.
But here's something else: Same county but this goes back about 30 nyears. My friend's business in C----- caught fire. Several local fire departments responded, but none could touch it because it was O---- 's jurisdiction and they were not there yet. Any thoughts on that?
Just to be clear, I appreciate the job you volunteer firemen do. I am a supporter of my local VFD. i just feel the VFD in this case overstepped.
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