40
   

The Day Ferguson Cops Were Caught in a Bloody Lie

 
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Nov, 2014 09:55 pm
Am I the only one that is shaking my head over all the nationwide protects over the lawful shooting of a black man, who was attacking a police officer with no shown racial compound involved, when no one seems to give a damn about the thousands of deaths of young blacks men who are being killed by other young black males every year.

No nationwide protects concerning black gangs who members not only who killed other gang members but complete innocent blacks who happen to have the bad luck to be on the wrong corner at the wrong time when someone does a drive by.

You can not even begin to solve the real problems in your community when you just ignored any that does not contain evil white racists.



0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 28 Nov, 2014 10:00 pm
@FBM,
Quote:
was that you'll never know in advance if the bad guy is carrying 6" of fat over his vitals or not


Sound like that would likely include 300 pounds plus Mr. Brown and myself for that matter at least before having lost forty pounds and counting.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Nov, 2014 10:05 pm
@BillRM,
Back when I was working in the juvenile justice system, there was a "kid" in the halfway house who fit the description of Brown, except maybe heavier and not violent. Seriously huge individual, despite being only 15 y.o. I would be afraid to shoot someone like that with anything less than a shotgun, unless I could guarantee a head shot.

BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 28 Nov, 2014 10:19 pm
@FBM,
Quote:
I would be afraid to shoot someone like that with anything less than a shotgun, unless I could guarantee a head shot.


It surely does seems that the standard police sidearm and ammo does not do a very good job of dealing with a person such as Mr. Brown.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Nov, 2014 10:26 pm
@BillRM,
In all fairness, neither does standard police conflict avoidance/resolution skills/training. I've seen lots of violent interactions (on Youtube, that is) between cops and the public that could've been avoided with the judicious use of personality. No offense intended to all the cops who DO use words judiciously, but all too often they adopt a militaristic attitude of overwhelming force from the moment of first contact. I don't see that so much in police in other countries.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Nov, 2014 10:45 pm
@FBM,
You likely have a point that the police should walk as softly as possible, however there being no amount of salary or benefits that would get me to take that job, so I am somewhat reluctant to second guess them.

Also my parents and others adults when I was growing up drill into me to be polite to police officers no matter what and given that any civilian black, white, lower or middle class or above who get into a conflict with a police officer is not likely to be on the winning side that seems overall still good advice and if Mr. Brown parents had drill that into him he would almost surely would still be alive.

He would had at worst gotten a slap on the wrist for stealing an few cigars and manhandling the employee of that business.
FBM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 28 Nov, 2014 10:53 pm
@BillRM,
I'm all for being polite and respectful to those who earn it, but not everyone in a position of authority earns it just for wearing a uniform or suit or whatever.

I haven't read the transcripts; I don't have any idea how Wilson engaged Brown in the first place. Verbally, I mean. Was it more like, "Excuse me, but you guys need to get out of the street and walk on the sidewalk out of traffic," or "What the hell are you idiots walking down the middle of the ******* street for?" Or somewhere in between? I'll see if I can find it.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Nov, 2014 05:34 am
@FBM,
Quote:
I'm all for being polite and respectful to those who earn it, but not everyone in a position of authority earns it just for wearing a uniform or suit or whatever.



I have no reason to think that the officer did not act in a profession manner however if you have a problem with how a police officer interactions with you the proper time to take it up is afterward with his supervisors or even the courts if it was bad enough.

There is nothing that the officer could had said that come within light years of excusing Brown from not following his commands let alone attacking the officer.

An parents, no matter what the skin color of the children happen to be, who care about the welfare of their children should drill that into them.

At worst Brown would have been arrested for a minor crime or crimes and after getting a slap on his wrist would had been free to go on with his life but for his actions not the police officer actions.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sat 29 Nov, 2014 05:58 am
@FBM,
FM my one young grandchild who was around seven at the time had some older black playmates that was around eleven or twelve who one day rough him up.

When my wife asked their mother what had happen it would seems that the our grand son had smart mouth them and that what had gotten him rough up.

No big deal as kids will be kids, but for the comment of the mother that she had taught her two sons not to take disrespect from anyone and it would seems response with some level of violence if they do feel disrespected.

My comments on hearing this long before Ferguson was one we should not allow them to play with our must younger grandchild and two that if the two boys kept following what their mother is teaching them in life they would likely sooner of later end up in prison for one reason or another.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Nov, 2014 06:04 am
@BillRM,
I agree in principle, but I also agree that it's a citizen's right to disobey an unlawful order or to demand a clearly stated legal justification for that order without fearing an immediate violent response. Sure, the evidence supports that the two teens were walking in the street instead of the sidewalk, but that's a trivial misdemeanor at best. A lot hinges on how Wilson addressed Brown at the moment.

I saw one description of the event that said Wilson opened his door, striking Brown, which could be seen as physically aggressive. I don't know how true that description is, or in what manner Wilson engage Brown, so I'm in suspended judgement about it. Sorry that I haven't looked at the transcripts yet, so I still don't have a clear opinion.

I can agree wholeheartedly, however, that a citizen initiating an unprovoked physical altercation with a police officer is reprehensible. But it's equally reprehensible for an officer to initiate an unnecessary physical confrontation with a civilian. I'll look closer at the available evidence and see what I can come up with.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sat 29 Nov, 2014 10:06 am
@FBM,
Quote:
I saw one description of the event that said Wilson opened his door, striking Brown, which could be seen as physically aggressive. I don't know how true that description is, or in what manner Wilson engage Brown, so I'm in suspended judgement about it. Sorry that I haven't looked at the transcripts yet, so I still don't have a clear opinion.


There was one hell of a lot of claims by "witnesses" that turn out to be complete false such as Brown was shot in the back or that he had his hands up in the air and so on.

There was also witnesses that fear to testify due to concerns over their safety and who came forward only reluctantly to the grand jury who along with the physical evidence supported the officer version of events,
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Sat 29 Nov, 2014 10:09 am
@FBM,
FBM wrote:

Back when I was working in the juvenile justice system,
there was a "kid" in the halfway house who fit the description of Brown,
except maybe heavier and not violent. Seriously huge individual,
despite being only 15 y.o. I would be afraid to shoot someone like that
with anything less than a shotgun, unless I could guarantee a head shot.
The head shot saved Wilson. His other gunfire was ineffective.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Sat 29 Nov, 2014 10:47 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Saved him from what? Having to arrest someone for jaywalking? (Not a crime over here btw.)
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 29 Nov, 2014 11:06 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
The head shot saved Wilson. His other gunfire was ineffective.


If the police demand a semi-auto it should either be a model A 1911 colt 45 or a lighter version a colt combat commander.

Nice big heavy bullets with a lot of stopping power but at 800 ft/sec are a lot less likely to travel a long distance downrange and hit someone else.

Then as you only have seven rounds you are less likely to spray and pray at the target.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Nov, 2014 12:35 pm
@izzythepush,
Sadly your truth goes nowhere with a lot of people in my country today. We all seem to be loosing our humanity day by day.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 29 Nov, 2014 12:40 pm
@revelette2,
Quote:
Sadly your truth goes nowhere with a lot of people in my country today. We all seem to be loosing our humanity day by day.


I agree with the Sharptons and the Jacksons of the world not caring about the overwhelming problems of the black community such as the amazing death rate of young black teenagers due to black on black crimes as long as they can not cry racism in those cases.

Or putting an innocent cop through hell for doing his job for that matter.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  5  
Reply Sat 29 Nov, 2014 12:40 pm
In the aftermath of the Ferguson grand jury’s decision, many commenters and reporters noted that the law made it very difficult for Darren Wilson to be found guilty of murder or any crime, under the circumstances.





If you are upset with the outcome of the case, the argument goes, don’t blame the prosecutor or the grand jury, blame the law.

There is an element of truth to the argument. Self-defense laws in Missouri, and throughout the country, are robust and police officers, in particular, are given a wide degree of latitude.

But ultimately, it’s just a way to pass the buck. Darren Wilson did not escape accountability for shooting Michael Brown dead because of the law. He escaped accountability because, as a society, a majority of us are OK with that outcome.

There are many conflicting accounts of what happened the night Darren Wilson killed Michael Brown. Wilson was able to present his account, with little scrutiny, to the grand jury.

But even if you accept Wilson’s account word-for-word, he only gets off because enough people found his actions “reasonable” under the circumstances. Since Wilson used lethal force, he acted “reasonably” if he “reasonably” believed his life was in danger.

What does “reasonable” mean? It means whatever we say it means. Ultimately our answer of what reasonable conduct entails is not defined by law, but a reflection of society’s majoritarian norms. These norms can and do change. For example, women asserting self-defense against their husbands used to be prohibited from discussing prior acts of violence by their husbands in court. Such acts were not viewed as relevant when determining whether a woman’s actions were reasonable under the circumstances. But over time, that changed and prior acts of violence by the husband can be used as part of a successful self-defense claim by a battered spouse.

Was Wilson acting reasonably? He testified that Brown looked like a demon. A demon is a supernatural being associated with the devil. Is it reasonable for Wilson to perceive Brown, who was actually an 18-year-old human, in this manner? Is it reasonable for such a perception to contribute to fear that ultimately justified taking Brown’s life?

Wilson also testified that as he struck Brown with bullets he appeared to be “bulking up” to “run through the shots.” This seems like a common thing to happen in a science fiction novel. But is it a reasonable interpretation of the threat Brown posed to him, one that could justify continuing to shoot until Brown was struck fatally in the head?

The grand jury, in a flawed process, decided Wilson’s fear was reasonable. Many legal observers, however, think it was very likely Wilson would have been acquitted in an actual trial, and they are probably right.

But it has as much to do with our societal norms around police officers as the law itself. As a society, we are likely to give police officers the benefit of the doubt, even if they claim their victim was a demon who got stronger as he riddled his body with bullets.

There is nothing inherent in the nature of “reasonableness” or the law that makes things that way. In the United Kingdom, for examples, what constitutes a “reasonable” situation for the police to fire a weapon is much different. Many police officers in the U.K. don’t even carry firearms. British citizens are 100 times less likely to be shot by the police than Americans. Faced with a potential threat, British police officers are far more likely to engage in negotiation or use non-deadly force.

But we have a different definition of “reasonable” conduct in the United States. Our definition of that word, as much as any law, is what is keeping Darren Wilson from being held accountable for the killing of Michael Brown.

http://d35brb9zkkbdsd.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/wilson-638x423.jpg

source


BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sat 29 Nov, 2014 01:37 pm
@revelette2,
LOL a 300 pounds well over 6 foot tall man that was pounding me and trying to seized my gun would look like a demon to me let alone one welling and able then to keep charging me after being hits a number of times.

Next I assume you would care to live in a nation where no one is willing to be a police officer as even when acting in pure self defense you could end up being prosecuted if you happen to be white and needed to act against a person with a black skin.

I feel for any white police officer in Ferguson who might now be shy of using deadly force when it is called for and as a result could end up dead him or herself.

The whole event from start of the officer calling Brown over to when Brown attacked was stop took all of 90 seconds.

Not a lot of time do do anything but follow your training.


0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 29 Nov, 2014 01:48 pm
@revelette2,
What have always given cops a wide berth to do their work as agents of the collective, certainly it has gotten too large, but with this shoot there is not any evidence against the cop. The only law that would get Officer Wilson is a law that stated that a cop killing an unarmed citizen is a crime under all circumstances, and that would be a stupid law.

Quote:
But we have a different definition of “reasonable” conduct in the United States. Our definition of that word, as much as any law, is what is keeping Darren Wilson from being held accountable for the killing of Michael Brown.


Quote:
ac·count·a·ble
əˈkoun(t)əb(ə)l/
adjective
1.
(of a person, organization, or institution) required or expected to justify actions or decisions; responsible


Yet another example of lies from the left. Officer Wilson was hauled in front of a grand Jury and made to account for his actions, he was held accountable. The only other option is that they dont understand the meaning of the words that they use, which I suppose is possible, but that would be also a great reason to ignore what they say.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 29 Nov, 2014 03:08 pm
Kathleen Parker
Quote:
We see in Ferguson, Mo., what happens when respect for our legal process is lost: Arsonists and looters expressed their outrage that a grand jury didn’t act as they thought it should. Yet we hear people trying to defend these actions as somehow acceptable, or at least non-criminal, because of historical injustice.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/2014/11/28/parker-bill-cosby-rape-allegations/19553445/

Yep. It is is the excuse that was used to justify ruining the tree lighting ceremony at Westlake Center yesterday, making the kids gathered cry and shutting down the mall. These moral holy rollers are some very barbaric people.

Our entire way of life is build around the rule of law. Tear that down and we are toast. The ends do not in fact always justify the means.
 

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