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The way of freely thinking in English

Forums: English, Esl, Grammar
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oristarA
 
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 10:41 am
Your opinion will be appreciated.
Is the following sentence crystal clear and sound natural in English?

For a scientist, a great man, if there is one, is not for worship; rather, on whose shoulders we can set our feet and thus stand higher.
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Type: Question • Score: 6 • Views: 2,031 • Replies: 50

 
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 12:03 pm
@oristarA,
Not in my mind ..not crystal clear; however, it's form is prose and, as such, needs a different set of 'ears'. Is that something you wrote?
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 01:14 pm
@oristarA,
Quote:
Your opinion will be appreciated.
Is the following sentence crystal clear and sound natural in English?

For a scientist, a great man, if there is one, is not for worship; rather, on whose shoulders we can set our feet and thus stand higher.


Did you want to say,

Great scientists, if there are any, are not for worship, rather, they are those on whose shoulders we can stand in order to climb higher and see farther.
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 01:22 pm
@oristarA,
To a scientist the so-called "great man," if in fact there exists any such being, is not intended for worship; rather it is he upon whose shoulders we can set our feet in order to ourselves stand higher
contrex
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 01:44 pm
@oristarA,
For a scientist, a great man or woman, if there is one, is not for worship; rather, they are someone upon whose shoulders we can set our feet and thus see further.


Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 02:23 pm
@contrex,
I'd eliminate the phrase "if there is one" . IMHO, it adds nothing particularly useful. It subtracts by its presence as it adds noise.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 02:46 pm
@Ragman,
I would also leave out 'great man or woman.'
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 03:48 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Nodding!

Due to the intent behind this discussion of the scientist ... it assumes they're an accomplished scientist..as the discussion refers to standing on their shoulders due to their accomplishments.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 03:54 pm
@Ragman,
Something like that!
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 04:19 pm
@Ragman,
Quote:
Due to the intent behind this discussion of the scientist ... it assumes they're an accomplished scientist..as the discussion refers to standing on their shoulders due to their accomplishments.


It's a dangerous thing to make assumptions when teaching ESLs. They don't need to learn one or two teachers way of saying something. People speak parenthetically, ideas are often qualified and this is something they have to learn.

The idea is to help ESLs express what they want to express. It's quite a burden to carry an ESL teacher around with you for a lifetime.
Ragman
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 04:57 pm
@JTT,
Arbitrary, pedantic, pompous arses like yourself make they worst teachers. If you had an ounce of humility and/or humane qualities, you'd almost be worth reading.

If you notice (and are able to comprehend), mine are suggestions and preferences ... not declarations of what is absolutely correct English .. and do not state what are 'the grammatical rules'.

Furthermore, we don't know too much about the context of what and why OP is posting -- is it prose vs spoken language.

You can disagree as you wish with my opinion and state your preference, but stop with holier-than-thou accusations. It's beyond tedious and only serve to discredit yourself.

Scrolling past you. I suggest you do the same seeing that you're so troubled.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 05:06 pm
@Ragman,
Your incisive comments on the language issues were very interesting, Ragman.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 05:14 pm
@Ragman,
Quote:
If you notice (and are able to comprehend), mine are suggestions and preferences ..


Precisely. And that's what I have warned against. You made a suggestion to remove something in an arbitrary and unwise fashion.


Quote:
. not declarations of what is absolutely correct English .. and do not state what are 'the grammatical rules'.


This is not at all the issue. If it had been you would have been distinctly unqualified.

Quote:
Furthermore, we don't know too much about the context of what and why OP is posting -- is it prose vs spoken language.


Even more reason to not make spurious suggestions.

Ragman: Scrolling past you.

In your typical chickenshit, avoid the language issues fashion.

Ragman
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 05:20 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
You made a suggestion to remove something in an arbitrary and unwise fashion.

According to you,with just another man's opinion - not the arbiter of the English language.

It must be rather hard for you to be seated while typing with that stick up your ass.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 05:52 pm
@Ragman,
Quote:
According to you,with just another man's opinion - not the arbiter of the English language.


A quarter century more than you have of teaching ESL makes my opinion more than a tad more valuable than yours.

Quote:
It must be rather hard for you to be seated ... .


It is even more clearly illustrated by your complete inability to focus on the language issues.
Ragman
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 06:03 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
A quarter century more than you have of teaching ESL makes my opinion more than a tad more valuable than yours.

Truly, a legend in your own mind!

Ooooh..look a squirrel!
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 06:09 pm
@Ragman,
If that's all the courage you can muster to admit you were wrong, Ragman, that's fine. So many of you do seem to have an inordinately difficult time with honesty.
Ragman
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 06:12 pm
@JTT,
I will not admit to anything of the sort. I expressed my opinion an opinion based on being a reasonably educated lifetime English-speaker. You exalt yourself as is typical of you due to overheated ego --- thinking that stating ESL teaching elevates your opinion. However, this is merely a matter of opinion. Feel free to bloviate all you want. I'll leave you to your hot air.

You really are at war with the world. How very sad for you!
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 06:16 pm
@Ragman,
Quote:
You really are at war with the world



Pure Ragman bullshit. Pure Ragman diversion. It has been you that has been completely unable to focus on the language issues.
Ragman
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 06:19 pm
@JTT,
Feel free to have a beer or a soothing cool beverage ..and get off your high horse, already. You really are a bore.

Of course, as I anticipate, you'll do your typical last word. Go for it!
 

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