Non-duality ~ ~ "I AM THAT"

There has already been a lot of discussion of non-dualism on other threads in this forum. I'm sure someone will remind you of whicn ones they are. I've forgotten.

Oh Jesus.

Re: Non-duality ~ ~ "I AM THAT"

Obviously, kickycan hasn't been spending a lot of time on the Philosophy forum.

A search for the term "nondualism" came up with 254 hits. Frankly, I'm somewhat surprised that it has been so few, but there is certainly enough information out there that can satisfy all but the most voracious curiosity.

Re: Non-duality ~ ~ "I AM THAT"


I would say that's nonsense and merely one eschatological view, however, there's nothing wrong with smartening up whilst alive.

Kickycan, don't be dissuaded by our Western chauvinists. Non-dualism has an ancient and profoundly important role in Eastern thought (e.g., where the dualisms that dividie man and nature, value and fact, mind and the world, means and ends, and subject and object have not taken root). While it is ancient, it is for some people a radically new and either a very confusing and threatening or liberating perspective. Don't be discouraged from at least looking into it. "I am that" Tat tvam asi, That art thou--dissolving the distance between subject and object, you and the world- is a famous dictum of the Hindu later Upanishads (the Advaita Vedanta).

And yet, JL doesn't appreciate my poopie analyses regarding philosophy. One can look to a Jungian or Hindu, or Taoist, or Buudhist model of a 'collective consciousness' to explain our similarities as human beings, but let's face it, what we all share are the base day to day activities of living, including going to the bathroom. Ergo, in our hearts, we are non-dualistic, as we have the same needs once we get beyond our own pretensions.

Americans and Islamics are not getting along these days, if you didn't notice. However, consider this: Americans love 'South Park' and 'Jackass'. There is an old Iranian curse that translates as "May a thousand camels fart on your beard." Look, it may sound silly, but it's on topic. We ALL share these things. Toilet humour may yet prove to be the one strategy that makes us recognize that we are all the same. Take it as a joke if you want, but that Iranian curse is absolutely true.

I suppose that makes me a non-dualist, and perhaps a Taoist as well. I don't feel a need to shy away from reality.

Is this related to the "I am that I am. Tell them I Am sent you?" quote from god speaking to Moses? Just curious, Kicky.

I think it's closer to "I am I said" by Neil Diamond.

Kicky, there is a thread that went on forever and ever and ever in the Philosophy section that covered this subject wall to wall, as it were. Like JLNobody, I forget the title. I learned a lot from it, but not enough to, you know, 'splain things.

Maybe I'll go try to find it. The thread has everything, drama, recitative, recapitulation, snowball flinging, everything.

Mmm, snowball fights!!

The Philosophy of Self

Tickets, get your tickets now!

Allright, now we're talking. Thanks Ossobuco. I will check that out.

My original post was about a certain book, because I wanted to find a place to read and learn about this outside the forum, so that I might be able to understand a little bit more before I jump into this seemingly almost incomprehensible subject.

Also, I just wondered if my original summary of the non-dualist theory was on target or not.

Thanks for all your help.

edit: Fixed spelling of Ossobuco.

Yes, I think you’ve got the gist of it kickycan.

Consciousness is impersonal, meaning there is no individual self, except as a fiction. When looked for there is nothing to be found that constitutes an observing self; consciousness cannot be observed, which is a main failing of dualism; claims of self awareness through subject—object relations cannot not be defended except to claim ‘self’ as object, which is contradictory.

You could also supplement your reading with Ken Wilber's older books, The Spectrum of Consciousness and the Atman Project.

Kicky might also enjoy the works of Alan Watts, if he hasn't read them already. I highly suggest checking out the lectures posted here as a primer:

http://deoxy.org/watts.htm

A good tip if you really want to explore the concept of non-dualism is to be aware of your thoughts. Don't try to articulate them. Just try to hold on to them as complete as they come.

Also, if you have ever performed an action with perfect concentration, try to reflect on that. You see, in that moment when you performed with perfect concentration there were no boundaries between you and you act, you existed in a non dualistic presence.

Whatever you do, do not try to bring the spoken or written language with you into this exploration. It is founded in dualism and becomes meaninless without it.
Understanding the world in a non dualistic way is perhaps the simplest thing one can do. But to learn it is perhaps the hardest thing I've ever done, since it is pretty much backwards from everything else I've set out to learn.

Cryacuz, thanks again. You are a person of considerable insight.

Thanks JL.
And as they say... Takes one to know one

Can you explain how one would do that Cyracuz, please?

How did you 'learn' it?