@Romeo Fabulini,
Are you saying Jesus did not die and did not need to be resurrected?
@alphajoza,
What Dostoevsky meant was that a lot more is permitted then most peoples imagination would ever have dreamed with as God is often invoked to preserve the parochial status quo...comfort zone is everywhere and people each love their own small little worlds.
On the other hand yet another dull answer makes the case that whatever is permitted is permitted. I suppose that encompasses everything as whatever is not permitted its not the case either.
A third possible take would remind you that there is no one to give or take permission. Rules rule without a ruler. The classical authoritative God as a conscience is a creation of men done precisely to preserve our own beloved little worlds.
One should do what one can get away with, but do it in a way that one can still sleep well at night. The shortest path is still a path nonetheless. Translating to "Murikan" don't chew more then you can bite...
PS - Take a bite at a chocolate bar. There is no more metaphysics in the world than chocolate bars...
@alphajoza,
Is this statement from Ivan Karamazov in Dostoyevsky's book confusing necessary and sufficient conditions?
It is implying (though not explicitly stating) that God is a necessary condition for morality - morality cannot be possible as we see it unless God exists. Therefore, if God is necessary for it, because morality exists, God must have existed at one point to 'cause' it. (this is the basis of the moral arguments for God's existence, right?)
But if God were only a sufficient cause for morality...
Morality as we see it does exist - so it must be 'caused' by something. Now this cause does not have be God - it can be something else if God is only one of many potential sufficient causes for morality. If this sufficient cause WASN'T God we could remove him from the equation altogether. But even if this was the case... morality still exists, so there are still rules dictating what is permitted and what is not.
So if God doesn't exist, everything is permitted only if there were no other cause for morality to determine the rules governing 'permission' and 'non-permission'. But, again, morality clearly exists in some sense (whether objective or subjective - but that's another thorny issue...) so we can say it must be caused by something! So even if God doesn't exist, we still find that some things are governed by morality as laws of permission and non-permission.
Phil (www.philosophersblogofideas.blog.com)
Back in caveman times, the males shared their food with their wives and children even though their natural instinct must have been to hog it all for themselves.
Maybe they shared it because they felt the moral stirrings of compassion and pity?
@Romeo Fabulini,
Then the question that follows from that is 'do those moral stirrings come directly and only from God?', surely? I quite like Dawkins' ideas of compassion and morality being passed down as memes through the evolutionary process though, but wouldn't even this still not adequately remove the idea of God as the source of morality?
Phil (www.philosophersblogofideas.blog.com)
@PhilipOSopher,
From my 66 years experience of life on earth, I can honestly say that the vast majority of nasty, unreliable, untrustworthy people are atheists and assorted nonchristians. Why is that?
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:From my 66 years experience of life on earth, I can honestly say that the vast majority of nasty, unreliable, untrustworthy people are atheists and assorted nonchristians. Why is that?
Don't know, Romeo. Maybe you need to get out more:
Quote:14 For when people of the nations, who do not have law, do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves. 15 They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them, and by their own thoughts they are being accused or even excused. (Romans 2:14,15)
For example, I get truckloads of compliments from decent nice christians all over internet-land, and I get truckloads of hate from atheists, nonchristians, phoney christians and cultists, wanna see some of the latter? Here ya go-
Steve H - "Micks a narrow-minded unchristian unqualified know-nothing silly little man and work-shy racist layabout"
Cymba - "Micks an unchristian aggressive liar showing no fruits of the spirit"
Zeke - "Micks wrong wrong wrong and denies Gods word"
Christian Trucker Pat - "Micks proud,arrogant,self-glorifying, uncharitable,offensive,lacking understanding and talking drivel"
Linda -"Mick's a silly little Brit"
Gloryboundd - "Mick's a senile liar and fool"
Elbown - "Mick you put me off Christianity and i'm a Christian"
SheriNuwine - "Mick you come across as a pervert, do you like cheeky little minxes who play with dollies?"
Sunami -"Mick...the lazy workshy parasite that you are"
Papdotcom to me - "You are one crazy s.o.b"
Reverend Eric Potts - "You disgust me Mick"
Faeshadow to me -"there are no words for the depth of ignorance and depravity that your mindset displays"
PeterM quote - "Mick, your posts are so full of BS I await to here you mooing. You are obviously one paranoid individual who has delusions of grandeur, and these are the least of your problems.....You do realise you're a twat?"
Veritasbellum to me - "..inane drivel, as the majority of your posts are......I pity you but I don't hate you......You put me off Christianity and you are definately a phoney Christian""
Toolate quote to me - "Everybody thinks you are an idiot.....atheists don't hate you, just find you laughable........What crimes are you planning now? More race hate?"
RomanticHorror to me - "you sick bastard"
CreationFallacy quote to me - "Your posts remind me of local radio stations. Same old boring crap over and over again"
ZenAgain to me -"you wander off into drug induced metaphore.......I could tell by your posts that dementia was setting in"
PaganSunflower to me -"you have not fooled those on this board with even a shred of intelligence"
LanceT quote - "Mick try not to be a prick all your life, eh?"
ZaZen quote - "Mick is like horse manure. You either stand in it or are sensible and avoid it."
OldyOneCanardly to me - "you are just an ignorant, bigotted, anti- semite with fascist and racist tendencies .....nothing of intelligence to contribute to anything or anybody, you big loser in life"
Dm2473 quote to me - "The fact that I'm Jewish and you're a Christian has nothing to do with the fact that you are a boorish, small minded, shallow, nincompoop"
Junoth quote to me - "What a sick and twisted mind you have! In fact the word "evil" springs to mind when I read your demented claptrap!"
Nanacad - Mick is a long time AOL message board wanker..
Donbain - "I've got Mick on filter for one very good reason, his intelligence is too low beneath mine to dignify his lewdness with an answer"
Krpzd1 to me - "You really are a prize tit aren't you?"
Sandragoggins (witch) -"I'm sure God has a special seat in hell for you Mick,feel free to go fornicate yourself"
Junoth quote-"Senile and paranoid Mick the compulsive liar"
Fut004- "why don't you take your stupid christian trolling ass and **** off?"
Angelakarma- "Mick the prick"
The Word- "You're a pathetic liar and I'm not afraid at all to judge you because I'm the Law"
Johnfb- "Why dont you take a ******* running jump you sexist pig...you're like some dirty old man trawling the forum for your next victim.....you definitely dont work for God at all..."
Ohme- "Basically you are an elitist twat, stealing quotes form other elitist twats, and trying to get the world to believe God is really an elitist twat like you.."
Neologist (Jehovah's Witness)- "Romeo is ignorant, a fable-spinner, talks drivel, a deceiver, racist, self-deluded"
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:For example, I get truckloads of compliments from decent nice christians all over internet-land, and I get truckloads of hate from atheists, nonchristians, phoney christians and cultists,
How do you determine whether these comments are not, in fact, correct?
Quote:Neologist said about the hate mail I get: How do you determine whether these comments are not, in fact, correct?
Argue it out with my fans mate..
-
Spannerose - "Mick, I would like you to know that the result of reading your posts I am left with the desire to pick up my bible for the first time in years"
ChildofLight - "So good to read your responses Mick, some are quite witty and made LOL"
Happysandyh - "welcome Mick, welcome welcome!"
HenryS - "You are brilliant Mick in finding appropriate phrases. Another one of your superb emails to store"
Firebrand - "Amen and welcome Mick"
Coconut - "Whew! Thanks for sharing Mick"
Sarah4Jesus - "Listen to Mick in Plymouth, he is a great teacher"
Cathie - "Very wise advice Mick, thanks"
Kierri - "That was one of the best explanations I've ever heard! Yay for Mick in Plymouth"
Haimehenmmli - "I LOVE IT MATE!!! I'm going to put it into my files, with some of my other favorites, from you"
Evachrst3 - "Right on, Mick, I couldn't agree more.Thank you for defending the faith so eloquently".
Devilmademedoit2 - "I love this! Thanks, Mick!"
SweetSummer96 - "Wow. That's a cool story Mick."
Vespasian052 - "Wow! Mick,what an awesome tale.."
Beekpr9 - "Amen to all you have said, Mick!"
Saipan1777 - "Spot on Mick bravo"
Duke Tinn - "Thanks again Mick. Great Stuff"
Tahella - "Welcome Mick!"
Ainglkiss - "Mick what a wonderful story. You write so well. Keep up the great work"
BlessedOne - "Glad to have you here Mick! Jesus is the way!"
MonkGirl - "Wow, thank you Mick! That is really comforting...and all I really needed to hear!"
WOFman - "Welcome Mick!"
JeffC - "HELL YEAH! PREACH IT BROTHER, THE REALITY WAY! (LUV YUR STYLE....)
Nottonguetied - "I loved those stories from Mick"
Honeybearx - "This was very good reading thank you Mick"
Megan - "Mick, I just wanted to tell you that I loved this story, it was very touching"
Benjoman - "Your one of the only ones from the singles board that I still love Mick"
Allisoneness -"You are the one true Christian on here, keep up the good work and praise the Lord"
Sherry Anne - "Mick i love your posts"
Antipas - "Brilliant yet again Mick"
Easynote - "ROFL Mick you are pure class, another of your timeless classics!"
Kermit - "I love Mick. He is so, how shall I say it, RIGHT ON THE MONEY AND FUNNY, TOO"
Kermmiekr - "How uplifting Mick, and so very true"
Chrysalis55- "Just want to say, I love your posts and your messages not only insprire me, sometimes they make me laugh
because you are able to get your point across in such a great way. WAY TO GO waymarker!!!"
Evenflow- I just LOVE this post You have made me smile BIG TIME this morning. Good for you and what a great attitude you have to life xx
Apple Pie - "Really good to see you, Mick. Come on over to 4church, we could do with your input and your humour"
Lillian - "Mick please come back..it's nice having you on the board"
Luismtzzz- "I like how you reason religion. I am enjoying your answers"
Justforme- "I am so happy to meet a sensible Christian"
@Romeo Fabulini,
a whole batch of lickspittles eh?Even if a god existed, what stops anything from being done by the very people who are claiming to be believers?
Mafiosi mostly went to church; Hitler believed he was duly authorized by a Christ; and ALL religious sides really believe that they alone are in possession of the "truth" (You are a prime example-with your denegration of everyone else's worldiews).
Quote:Farmerman said to me: ALL religious sides really believe that they alone are in possession of the "truth"
If any religion hasn't got the Son of God himself in it, it's not worth a plugged nickel..
Likewise if some so-called "christian" religions distort and twist his words, they're just crocks too..
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo is it possible for someone to distort and twist Jesus words without intending to?
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:a whole batch of lickspittles eh?Even if a god existed, what stops anything from being done by the very people who are claiming to be believers?
Mafiosi mostly went to church; Hitler believed he was duly authorized by a Christ; and ALL religious sides really believe that they alone are in possession of the "truth" (You are a prime example-with your denegration of everyone else's worldiews).
What most people fail to realize is that the God who created us is not the god currently directing world affairs. The information is clear in several places in the Bible; but preachers have been loathe to include the fact in sermon, perhaps because they would risk being identified as hypocrites when sending the cannon fodder off to war.
As to why this situation exists, and how long it will last, that is another topic.
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:a whole batch of lickspittles eh? . ..
Mixed with many more naysayers than Mick Jee will admit to. I found this interesting post from the QI Talk Forum 2 years back:
Quote:(Alfred E Neuman)
If he gets anywhere close 3000 posts on here, I suspect it will be after we have all left. Although the rate he copies and pastes these things from one forum to the next, he might get there by next Tuesday.
Quote:Smileyrius asked: Romeo is it possible for someone to distort and twist Jesus words without intending to?
Yes, dead easy-
"Some want to teach the law, but don't understand it" (1 Tim 1:7)
"Ignorant people distort things, to their own destruction" (2 Pet 3:16/17)
Although in fairness to them, they might be under satanic control and don't realise that he's using them like ventriloquist's dummies to talk rubbish.
Incidentally, what are you, atheist or mainstream religionist or cultist or what?
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:. . . .If any religion hasn't got the Son of God himself in it, it's not worth a plugged nickel..
So, is claiming to follow Jesus all that is needed?
Quote:21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’
(Matthew 7: 21-23)
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:Although in fairness to them, they might be under satanic control and don't realise that he's using them like ventriloquist's dummies to talk rubbish.
Thanks for the explanation. I knew you could do it.
For example, Satan has suckered Jehovah's Witnesses into getting rid of crosses and crucifixes! Tut-tut, Paul would definitely send them to the naughty step-
Paul said-"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God" (1 Cor 1:18)
@Romeo Fabulini,
If man can exercise imperfection in understanding, how can you be certain that you have correct understanding when dealing with so many interpretations?
Could you explain to me what Paul meant by the preaching of the cross?
