Congratulations, House Republicans!

@parados,

parados wrote:

Baldimo wrote:

He is a socialist. Remember the whole "You didn't build that" comment. Maybe you can describe some actions he has taken that are pro-capitalism?

What US company built and paid for our interstate road system. The companies didn't build that on their own.

Exactly.

Obama's comment was dead on the mark.

The remark may upset the conservatives and cause them to suppose Obama to be a socialist...BUT IT IS DEAD ON THE MARK.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

parados wrote:

Baldimo wrote:

He is a socialist. Remember the whole "You didn't build that" comment. Maybe you can describe some actions he has taken that are pro-capitalism?

What US company built and paid for our interstate road system. The companies didn't build that on their own.

Exactly.

Obama's comment was dead on the mark.

The remark may upset the conservatives and cause them to suppose Obama to be a socialist...BUT IT IS DEAD ON THE MARK.

This **** again? Chicken or the egg? Can the Govt build roads for free? Do they sprinkle fairy dust on the ground and *poof* instant road?

Seems to me they use tax money to build those roads. Who pay the taxes? Ever see a govt bull dozer building roads? I don't. I see local companies that submitted a bid to build them for the govt. So, yeah, companies did build the roads.

2 Replies

@McGentrix,

McGentrix wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

parados wrote:

Baldimo wrote:

He is a socialist. Remember the whole "You didn't build that" comment. Maybe you can describe some actions he has taken that are pro-capitalism?

What US company built and paid for our interstate road system. The companies didn't build that on their own.

Exactly.

Obama's comment was dead on the mark.

The remark may upset the conservatives and cause them to suppose Obama to be a socialist...BUT IT IS DEAD ON THE MARK.

This **** again? Chicken or the egg? Can the Govt build roads for free? Do they sprinkle fairy dust on the ground and *poof* instant road?

Seems to me they use tax money to build those roads. Who pay the taxes? Ever see a govt bull dozer building roads? I don't. I see local companies that submitted a bid to build them for the govt. So, yeah, companies did build the roads.

Sure they did, McGentrix. (Said sarcastically!)

And none of that tax money given to the companies came from "the people?"

Or did just about every penny come from the people...because any tax money "the companies paid"...was obtained by passing those costs on to "the people."

In any case, using the jarring reasoning you are trying to bring to this issue, "the companies" DID NOT BUILD the roads. Humans, using machines for the most part, built the roads. You remember them...the humans that are merely one factor of production for the companies...and the factor most often short changed during the process.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Sure they did, McGentrix. (Said sarcastically!)

And none of that tax money given to the companies came from "the people?"

Or did just about every penny come from the people...because any tax money "the companies paid"...was obtained by passing those costs on to "the people."

In any case, using the jarring reasoning you are trying to bring to this issue, "the companies" DID NOT BUILD the roads. Humans, using machines for the most part, built the roads. You remember them...the humans that are merely one factor of production for the companies...and the factor most often short changed during the process.

Those people just get together and decide to build roads? Or, did one person start small and invest their life savings into equipment and build up a company to the size needed and hire people to work for them? So, yeah, "companies" did build the roads. You remember those, right? They are the ones that pay people to work. So, "every penny?" Not even close. It is a low bid contract to a company that had to be built from scratch on the labor of hard working Americans (or other immigrants perhaps) that built that company standing on the shoulders of the companies before them that built the infrastructure before them.

The government doesn't build roads or anything for that matter. They merely regulate them.

That's capitalism Frank. The country is based on that despite the best efforts of you guys.

1 Reply

@bobsal u1553115,

The fact that you want a leader who does not listen to others opinions, means you are a little sheep looking for a Shepherd. You do not need to have an opinion as your life will be formed for you by your selected leader.

Do you realize what a fool you are?

1 Reply

@McGentrix,

McGentrix wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Sure they did, McGentrix. (Said sarcastically!)

And none of that tax money given to the companies came from "the people?"

Or did just about every penny come from the people...because any tax money "the companies paid"...was obtained by passing those costs on to "the people."

In any case, using the jarring reasoning you are trying to bring to this issue, "the companies" DID NOT BUILD the roads. Humans, using machines for the most part, built the roads. You remember them...the humans that are merely one factor of production for the companies...and the factor most often short changed during the process.

Those people just get together and decide to build roads? Or, did one person start small and invest their life savings into equipment and build up a company to the size needed and hire people to work for them? So, yeah, "companies" did build the roads. You remember those, right? They are the ones that pay people to work. So, "every penny?" Not even close. It is a low bid contract to a company that had to be built from scratch on the labor of hard working Americans (or other immigrants perhaps) that built that company standing on the shoulders of the companies before them that built the infrastructure before them.

The government doesn't build roads or anything for that matter. They merely regulate them.

That's capitalism Frank. The country is based on that despite the best efforts of you guys.

If you want to strain and torture logic...and claim that companies built the roads simply because the government issued contracts for work to those companies...then I can use that reasoning to show that the roads actually were built by humans using machines.

Watch a road being built, McG. No big deal...it goes on all over the place. Always...the work is being done by humans toiling and working with machines.

Capitalism did not build one centimeter of road. Humans, using machines, did...ALL OF THE ROADS.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

If you want to strain and torture logic...and claim that companies built the roads simply because the government issued contracts for work to those companies...then I can use that reasoning to show that the roads actually were built by humans using machines.

Watch a road being built, McG. No big deal...it goes on all over the place. Always...the work is being done by humans toiling and working with machines.

Capitalism did not build one centimeter of road. Humans, using machines, did...ALL OF THE ROADS.

and who paid for those machines Frank? I didn't pay for them, you didn't pay for them... the guy that owns the paving company paid for them. Do you suppose that Frank decided he would go pave some roads one day so he signed up for a govt contract? Then just built a road?

Is this what you really believe Frank, or are you just arguing for arguing's sake?

Who built the railroads Frank? The Govt or the rail moguls?
Who laid the telegraph wires? Govt or Western Union?
Who is laying out fiber optic cable runs? Govt or Google?
Who paves the roads? Govt or contracted privately held companies?

Frank, it's ok to admit that Obama was wrong. You've done it before. Capitalism is a perfectly fine -ism and you don't need to fear it.

1 Reply

@McGentrix,

McGentrix wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

If you want to strain and torture logic...and claim that companies built the roads simply because the government issued contracts for work to those companies...then I can use that reasoning to show that the roads actually were built by humans using machines.

Watch a road being built, McG. No big deal...it goes on all over the place. Always...the work is being done by humans toiling and working with machines.

Capitalism did not build one centimeter of road. Humans, using machines, did...ALL OF THE ROADS.

and who paid for those machines Frank? I didn't pay for them, you didn't pay for them... the guy that owns the paving company paid for them. Do you suppose that Frank decided he would go pave some roads one day so he signed up for a govt contract? Then just built a road?

Nope. The government took money away from us and gave it to the guy to do the job.

WE...built the roads in that sense...but the guys who toiled and sweated while operating the machinery (and often without machinery) ACTUALLY built them.

Quote:

Is this what you really believe Frank, or are you just arguing for arguing's sake?

I do not do believing, McG. I have stated my position clearly. You just disagree with it. But I think my position is impeccable on this issue.

The companies using the roads did not build them. They were built by us, WE, THE PEOPLE, by having the government take money from us and give it to the guy who paid the people who actually did the work.

Why do you have trouble understanding that?

Quote:

Who built the railroads Frank? The Govt or the rail moguls?

Built them where...in the air...or on a planet they also built. Or did they build the railroads on land owned by all of us?

Quote:

Who laid the telegraph wires? Govt or Western Union?

Laid them where, McG? Across land owned by all of us, right? We gave them permission to do so...and gave them lots of land to boot.

Quote:

Who is laying out fiber optic cable runs? Govt or Google?

Who gives them permission...and allows them monopoly? WE, THE PEOPLE.

Quote:

Who paves the roads? Govt or contracted privately held companies?

Where does the government get the money they give to those companies, Mc G. (Hint: From us, WE, THE PEOPLE.)

Quote:

Frank, it's ok to admit that Obama was wrong. You've done it before.

Yes, I have. And when he is wrong...he is wrong.

On this issue...he was spot on.

Quote:

Capitalism is a perfectly fine -ism and you don't need to fear it.

You are correct...and I don't.

But that has nothing to do with the president being spot on here.

0 Replies

@McGentrix,

No one company built that road or paid all the taxes to build it. So the only **** is from you McG. No, they didn't build it. They may have contributed to it but the majority was paid for by others just like Obama said.

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

They don't want anything "free". They have concept of the "commons". They want to meter and collect on everything. Sunlight will be on the list one day.

1 Reply

@woiyo,

Quote:

Do you realize what a fool you are?

Pure blather and balderdash. But you do make it abundantly clear the total tool you are.

0 Replies

@bobsal u1553115,

That free word you keep using, I don't think it means what you think it means. Our education is not free, someone pays for it. To some it seems free because they don't have to pay the taxes it takes to educate their children. So I guess it is free. They don't have to pay the registration fee's for their children, so I guess it could seem to be free. NOTHING is free that comes from the govt. Someone else might be footing the bill but nothing is free.

The only people who want to meter everything are those of you on the left. Tax the **** out of everything at every point so that the govt can provide the FREE stuff you want to provide. Every time the govt wants to "do something" it costs money. This is why I ask if the govt cuts checks to business's as part of their "corp welfare". It's the people's money they are spending.

2 Replies

@Baldimo,

Bobsal can not understand that logic as his views have been formed by others.

It is impossible for those like him to grasp this basic concept you have outlined so well.

0 Replies

@Baldimo,

Let's examine your argument...

"Free" has been used to describe government services provided without cost to the person receiving that service since before the Constitution was written. The idea of a free public education was well known at that time. You are using the equivocation fallacy to make your argument about nothing being free.

Quote:

Tax the **** out of everything at every point so that the govt can provide the FREE stuff you want to provide.

That would be an example of a strawman fallacy. No one has proposed taxing the **** out of everything at every point. In reality our taxes are the lowest since the 60s.

You haven't presented a logical argument even though Woiyo thinks you did. You have simply used logical fallacies.

2 Replies

@parados,

You wrote with which I totally agree with,

Quote:

You have simply used logical fallacies.

But the extension of that is that those who use logical fallacies and strawman falllacies is that they can't prove their position from history or facts. Nada, none, zero, zilch.

Governments can't provide FREE stuff for everything and everybody. That's logistically impossible.

0 Replies

@parados,

But nothing is free. It isn't a logical fallacy, it is the truth. It always costs someone but the people who receive these "free" things really think they grow on trees. Why do you think we have such a high level of abuse and fraud in our social programs? 7-11 takes food stamps?

Which taxes are lowest since the 60's? Gas tax, property tax, income tax or sales tax? How many other taxes are out there to be paid? There are more taxes now then there were back int he 1960's. Not to mention if money is short the only solution the Dems have is to raise taxes, never cut funding unless it is to the military. The only govt program a Dem really hates.

2 Replies

@Baldimo,

Bullshit. Why shouldn't water me owned by cities and districts and not Nestles or be fouled by frackers.

1 Reply

Conservatives get their Obamacare wish — and now condemn their own sabotage
Gov. Rick Scott bemoans premium hikes in Florida -- which were caused by his anti-Obamacare minions

SIMON MALOY

There was once a time – five months ago, to be precise – when the big fear surrounding the Affordable Care Act was that it would cause health insurance premiums to “skyrocket.” That, at least, was the terminology the Hill used in a headline for a story on its health policy blog, which quoted a handful of anonymous insurance executives in reporting that “ObamaCare-related premiums will double in some parts of the country, countering claims recently made by the administration.” The Hill’s report was eagerly shared and promoted by conservative and Republican opponents of the ACA, who waved it around as proof that the law was a disaster.

Despite all the fanfare, there was little reason to believe the Hill’s reporting. The ACA’s first open enrollment period was still going at that point, so there was no way to know how many Obamacare enrollees there were, their ages, their health status – all factors that go into calculating rate increases. Getting a better picture of what the rate adjustments for 2015 would like required waiting, and patience.

Well, now we’re starting to see the picture develop, and it looks very different from the 100-percent increases conservatives were secretly (or overtly) hoping for just a few months ago. PricewaterhouseCoopers put together a “preliminary look at 2015 individual market rate filings,” and they found that, for the 27 states for which data are available, the average premium increase will be 7.5 percent. It’s all preliminary, of course, but it’s a hell of a lot better than the Hill’s citation of a former insurance executive’s “gut” feeling. The New Republic’s Jonathan Cohn writes that “the experts I consulted all saw the available information as relatively encouraging, particularly in comparison to what many were predicting just a few months ago.”

more
http://www.salon.com/2014/08/06/conservatives_get_their_obamacare_wish_and_now_condemn_their_own_sabotage/

1 Reply

@bobsal u1553115,

What are you talking about?

1 Reply

@Baldimo,

It is a logical fallacy since you have simply substituted a different definition of "free" to make your point.

A free public education is something we have had for a long time in the US. It is free to the person receiving the benefit. It is paid for by society but we call it "free". By arguing that it is paid for by society so isn't free is an example of the equivocation fallacy.

Quote:

Which taxes are lowest since the 60's? Gas tax, property tax, income tax or sales tax? How many other taxes are out there to be paid? There are more taxes now then there were back int he 1960's. Not to mention if money is short the only solution the Dems have is to raise taxes, never cut funding unless it is to the military. The only govt program a Dem really hates.

The percent of income that a person pays in taxes is near a low for the last 40 years. Government revenues as a percent of GDP is near a low for the last 40 years.

The only tax rate that has gone up is FICA.
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=456

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/30/us/most-americans-face-lower-tax-burden-than-in-the-80s.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Even the GOP House staff analysis shows the current effective tax rate is lower than it was in previous decades.
http://blackburn.house.gov/uploadedfiles/jec_republican_staff_analysis_historical_tax_rates_rhetoric_vs_reality.pdf.pdf

State and local taxes have stayed at about the same percentage of income over the last 30 years.
http://taxfoundation.org/article/state-and-local-tax-burdens-all-years-one-state-1977-2011

Federal revenues are at one of the lowest points as % of GDP.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals

1 Reply

Congratulations, House Republicans!

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