No, no, really . . . i kid you not !

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A few questions about lying:

Do you ever feel as though you have lied to someone for not having told all you knew? That is to say, knowing it would leave a false impression?

Are you ever dishonest in what you consider a trivial manner, in order to spare someone's feelings?

How do you deal with the "elephant in the room" situation, meaning those situations in which everyone is obviously deliberately ignoring someone or something?

Do you think that "the truth will out"--that lying eventually fails because one will be discovered?

When does lying, in your opinion, become a matter of moral terpitude, or ethical failure?

I would like to read what you think. Later, i'll answer my own questions. This is no ambush thread, i'm not trying to set anyone up for this. Frankly, i'm not yet certain how i would answer these questions for myself.

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Setanta, all women lie about their age, right? And that's as it should be, I think. Smile

Well, sins of omission are a type of lie, but I never feel guilt about those kinds of prevarications, because they are meant to spare, and in my eyes become gentle truths.

I'm not quite certain what you mean by an "elephant in the room" situation, so I can't comment.

In many situations, it's far easier to tell the truth such as John Dean did in the Nixon affair, but, no, I don't think the "truth will out" always.

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I think I have almost always prefer to know the bad news than not... for one thing, I can usually sense when there is something and I create worst-case scenarios for what it is. The truth might be bad, but usually less bad than what I was imagining.

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Soz, there's something really serious I need to talk to you about but it'll have to wait till 2005.

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Letty, I think the "elephant in the room" is a bit like the "bull in a china shop", where you know everyone is watching you, perhaps whispering lies about you, but they do not have the courage to say anything to you directly. You notice this, and it makes things very uncomfortable. Set can correct me if I am wrong on this point.

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Re: No, no, really . . . i kid you not !

Setanta wrote:

A few questions about lying:

Do you ever feel as though you have lied to someone for not having told all you knew? That is to say, knowing it would leave a false impression?

Absolutely. This was an essential component of my last job. And there are a lot of delicate steps that have to be taken in my dealings with my family where such tactics come in handy.

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Are you ever dishonest in what you consider a trivial manner, in order to spare someone's feelings?

Yes, but I'm not very good at it. I'm a fanatically harsh proof-reader -- of my own work as well as others -- and I recently toned this way down in reviewing some peers' papers. Still went far beyond the bounds of what is generally acceptable for these kids, I think, and probably touched a few nerves.

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How do you deal with the "elephant in the room" situation, meaning those situations in which everyone is obviously deliberately ignoring someone or something?

If they're ignoring something that would embarass me, I usually bring it up. Makes it much easier. If someone else is being protected, mum's the word -- unless I really, really don't like the person.

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Do you think that "the truth will out"--that lying eventually fails because one will be discovered?

Depends on your relationship with the person to whom you are lying, don't it?

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When does lying, in your opinion, become a matter of moral terpitude, or ethical failure?

If I lie just to benefit myself, I'm an azzhole, and I can deal with that (though I'd rather not). If I lie with the knowledge that it will harm someone else in some way, I'm a dick, and I don't like that at all.

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I would like to read what you think. Later, i'll answer my own questions. This is no ambush thread, i'm not trying to set anyone up for this. Frankly, i'm not yet certain how i would answer these questions for myself.

amnotbush... how'd i do?

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More or less bookmarking. Have some thoughts on the subject but my computer time is about to run out.

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Wow, lots of action.

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Why, PPD, dah-ling, you were . . . magnificent . . .

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Cav, "elephant in the room" situations are those in which something is obvious to everyone, but it is pointedly ignored. Example: at a party, the hubby gets drunk and hits on every woman in sight, tries to grope the hired staff, etc.--and everyone acts as though they don't notice.

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Ahh...okay then. I was leaning towards that in my head, but thanks for the clarification.

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Thanks, Cav, for your acknowledgement. I'm not certain what that has to do with lying, however.

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I have found I've become more honest as time goes by. The truth is far easier to swallow however unpleasant. Then again, sometimes it's not for me to say.
I remember a guy who I worked with was an abhorant cheater. He loved to brag of his conquests. His wife was pregnant. Yet none of us told her. I think she knew but I wasn't close enough to say anything. I just watched the train wreck. I felt terrible - still do.

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Craven, one thing I like about you is that I feel like I can just say anything without hurting your feelings, so...

Hmm, maybe not this time.

I'll think about it.

:-P

Ceili, yeah, that's a special case -- I dunno what I would do there. I'd tend towards telling, but I've not said anything in that situation before (when I know someone's being cheated on... especially when I know the cheater better than the cheatee.)

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soz, since we're being blunt I should really get this off my chest...... it's a pickle from last night's hamburger.

Now what was I going to tell you.. oh.. I can't believe I was going to say that here! Nemind.

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Setanta wrote:

Example: at a party, the hubby gets drunk and hits on every woman in sight, tries to grope the hired staff, etc.--and everyone acts as though they don't notice.

What's the point in getting drunk if you can't enjoy yourself

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Ahh-heck - in real life I hardly ever lie for sure I NEVER lie at the office, it's so much more empowering - to have that character trait. I do get in hotwater for brutal honesty sometimes.

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Quote:

Do you ever feel as though you have lied to someone for not having told all you knew? That is to say, knowing it would leave a false impression?

Yes. I dont always tell all that I know. Sometimes it feels like a lie because of the expectation of the other person though, not because I have a duty to disclose.

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Are you ever dishonest in what you consider a trivial manner, in order to spare someone's feelings?

Occasionally.

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How do you deal with the "elephant in the room" situation, meaning those situations in which everyone is obviously deliberately ignoring someone or something?

Depends on whats being avoided, and why. In cases where Ive felt extremely uncomfortable but very close to the people, I have simply tabled the issue, usually to good effect. Sometimes, though, I avoid it too, when to address it straightforwardly would serve no useful purpose. I think I might be a coward. Maybe its prudence, I dont know. Sometimes, I simply dont feel capable of dealing with the fall out and sometimes; its not my issue and not my place to force it.

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Do you think that "the truth will out"--that lying eventually fails because one will be discovered?

Yes, generally, but not always. I also generally believe the truth will set you free.

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When does lying, in your opinion, become a matter of moral terpitude, or ethical failure?

Malicious lying to hurt/defame others. Persistent capricious lying for no other reason than the individual is a liar, is irksome, too, though I dont view the two in the same light. Ethical failure? Any lie, I suppose, is an ethical failure from my perspective, but I can imagine cases where telling the whole truth might cause injury to others. That is, where telling the truth would constitute an immoral act. There are situations where I would lie to protect others and myself.

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Thanks for your response, JB, a very well-considered, and it appears, an honest reply.

Your final assessment puts me in mind of what Charles Sturart had to say about god:

"The only things that God hates, are that we be evil, and that we design mischief.

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Your views, Setanta?

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No, no, really . . . i kid you not !

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