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Who's familiar with this history: US government used tanks to suppress veterans

 
 
Reply Sun 2 Feb, 2014 10:05 am

Google failed me. Would you give me a hand?
Was there any veterans dead? The outcome?
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Type: Question • Score: 3 • Views: 760 • Replies: 16
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View best answer, chosen by oristarA
BillRM
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  2  
Reply Sun 2 Feb, 2014 10:10 am
@oristarA,
Try searching for the bonus march on Washington of world war one vets.

Let me see switching over to another window.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army

Two vets was killed by police acting in self defense from a mob, one infant die from a bad reaction to tear gas and one woman miscarriage.

oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Feb, 2014 08:06 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Try searching for the bonus march on Washington of world war one vets.

Let me see switching over to another window.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army

Two vets was killed by police acting in self defense from a mob, one infant die from a bad reaction to tear gas and one woman miscarriage.




Excellent!

Is there a collection that says "in history, for 24 times US government sent its army to suppress its people"?
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Sun 2 Feb, 2014 08:27 pm
@oristarA,
Quote:
Is there a collection that says "in history, for 24 times US government sent its army to suppress its people"?


Not that I know of but if there is it should show up in a google search.

By the way since the civil war the US military by law had been limited as far as law enforcement actions within the US.

Washington DC being a federal control district is not cover by that law.

Then in my life time the few times federal troops had been used within the US it been for enforcing the civil rights of blacks in the south against the wishes of the state governments involved, not to suppress the people.

In any case, I suggest you look at the following wikipedia article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

Personal footnote after Hurricane Andrew in 1992, due to the above law the federal government when they send in troops to provide aid to South Florida, the troops was not allow to have bullets for their rifles!!!!!!!!

The national guard and the local police ended up protecting them from the local gangs once the gangs found out that they was not allow to be armed.

Craziness indeed.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Feb, 2014 09:29 pm
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:

Google failed me. Would you give me a hand?
Was there any veterans dead? The outcome?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Feb, 2014 09:36 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
Personal footnote after Hurricane Andrew in 1992,
due to the above law the federal government when they send in troops
to provide aid to South Florida, the troops was not allow to have bullets for their rifles!!!!!!!!
No shells, either.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Feb, 2014 09:55 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
No shells, either.


LOL
0 Replies
 
Zarathustra
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Feb, 2014 10:08 pm
@oristarA,
Took about 2 seconds to find the info. This is a short description from the Library of Congress.

Quote:
...The Bonus Army, some 15,000 to 20,000 World War I veterans from across the country, marched on the Capitol in June 1932 to request early payment of cash bonuses due to them in 1945. The Great Depression had destroyed the economy, leaving many veterans jobless.

Veteran Army Signal Corps photographer Theodor Horydczak, of Washington, D.C., photographed their camp site on the Mall. Six futile weeks of lobbying Congress raised government fears of riots, and on July 28, cavalry, infantry, tank troops and a mounted machine gun squadron commanded by General Douglas MacArthur and Major Dwight Eisenhower dispersed veterans and their families with bayonets and tear gas. Public opinion denounced President Herbert Hoover for the resulting bloodshed and helped force him from office.


This is a government sanitized summary there are detailed descriptions that paint the Army in a terrible light. By the way live machine gun rounds WERE used.

Douglas MacArthur would show his megalomania and total disregard for authority when the president told him to have the troops stand down to calm the growing situation, he actually ordered Calvary and baronet charges against the veterans and their families.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Feb, 2014 10:55 pm
@Zarathustra,
Zarathustra wrote:

Took about 2 seconds to find the info. This is a short description from the Library of Congress.

Quote:
...The Bonus Army, some 15,000 to 20,000 World War I veterans from across the country, marched on the Capitol in June 1932 to request early payment of cash bonuses due to them in 1945. The Great Depression had destroyed the economy, leaving many veterans jobless.

Veteran Army Signal Corps photographer Theodor Horydczak, of Washington, D.C., photographed their camp site on the Mall. Six futile weeks of lobbying Congress raised government fears of riots, and on July 28, cavalry, infantry, tank troops and a mounted machine gun squadron commanded by General Douglas MacArthur and Major Dwight Eisenhower dispersed veterans and their families with bayonets and tear gas. Public opinion denounced President Herbert Hoover for the resulting bloodshed and helped force him from office.


This is a government sanitized summary there are detailed descriptions that paint the Army in a terrible light. By the way live machine gun rounds WERE used.

Douglas MacArthur would show his megalomania and total disregard for authority when the president told him to have the troops stand down to calm the growing situation, he actually ordered Calvary and baronet charges against the veterans and their families.


Well thank you guys.

I wonder why used tanks in suppressing the bonus march? It seems better NOT to use them.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Feb, 2014 03:09 am
During the riots after the Rodney King trial in Los Angeles, the govt did send US Marines into LA to help restore order.
Those marines were from Camp Pendleton, and they did have live rounds.
The gangs in LA found that out the hard way after the started shooting at fire fighters and the marines shot back.
The gangs real quickly found out that marines don't miss.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Mon 3 Feb, 2014 05:04 am
@oristarA,
Quote:
I wonder why used tanks in suppressing the bonus march? It seems better NOT to use them.


I would assume they would be useful in breaking through barricades.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Feb, 2014 08:06 am
@Zarathustra,
Quote:
By the way live machine gun rounds WERE used.


There was four deaths two of them before the army show up by the police and one an infant due to a bad reaction to tear gas and a miscarriage.

No one used machine guns on the vets and their families or there would had been one hell of a lot more deaths then that!!!!!!!

Perhaps over their heads but even then it seem unlikely.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Feb, 2014 08:10 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
I wonder why used tanks in suppressing the bonus march? It seems better NOT to use them.


I would assume they would be useful in breaking through barricades.


Good point.

I wonder how many victims in the events in which US presidents sent troops to intervene for purposes of anti-riot or suppression?
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Feb, 2014 10:18 am
@oristarA,
Quote:
I wonder how many victims in the events in which US presidents sent troops to intervene for purposes of anti-riot or suppression?


First calling law breakers/rioters victims is somewhat of a reach in my opinion.


Next very very very few "victims" indeed from direct federal government actions if you do not count the civil war and many hundreds of thousands if you do count the civil war.

When troops are needed most was states forces under states control.

From George Washington suppressing the so call whiskey rebellion on the government tended to used the minimum amount of force needed to regain control when the federal government did act.
0 Replies
 
Zarathustra
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Feb, 2014 03:34 pm
@BillRM,
Well I have learned not to argue with A2K "experts." Besides it is hard to take anyone seriously that thinks Wikipedia is a reference source, let alone an authoritative reference source. As far as I am concerned history is whatever you say it is.

I provided an authoritative source to "A" that tanks were used that's all that matters to me.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Feb, 2014 03:51 pm
@Zarathustra,
Quote:
Well I have learned not to argue with A2K "experts." Besides it is hard to take anyone seriously that thinks Wikipedia is a reference source, let alone an authoritative reference source. As far as I am concerned history is whatever you say it is.


LOL Please feel free to post sources that claimed the death total was so large in the Bonus Army that the idea of machine guns being used on the vets is not funny or that tanks was used directly against the vets instead of as tools to removed barricades and such.

Footnote studies had shown that Wikipedia compare well with other reference sources as far as accuracy is concern such as the Encyclopaedia Britannica.

But once more I would love to see you referencing other sources that show a large death total for the vets and their families.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Feb, 2014 04:39 pm
@Zarathustra,
Quote:
anyone seriously that thinks Wikipedia is a reference source



Quote:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliability_of_Wikipedia#Comparative_studies


In December 2005, the journal Nature conducted a single-blind study comparing the accuracy of a sample of articles from Wikipedia and Encyclopædia Britannica. The sample included 42 articles on scientific topics, including biographies of well-known scientists. The articles were compared for accuracy by academic reviewers who remained anonymous − a customary practice for journal article reviews. Based on their review, the average Wikipedia article contained 4 errors or omissions; the average Britannica article, 3. Only 4 serious errors were found in Wikipedia, and 4 in Encyclopædia Britannica. The study concluded: "Wikipedia comes close to Britannica in terms of the accuracy of its science entries",[2] although Wikipedia's articles were often "poorly structured".[2]
Encyclopædia Britannica expressed concerns, leading Nature to release further documentation of its survey method.[28] Based on this additional information, Encyclopædia Britannica denied the validity of the Nature study, stating that it was "fatally flawed". Among Britannica's criticisms were that excerpts rather than the full texts of some of their articles were used, that some of the extracts were compilations that included articles written for the youth version, that Nature did not check the factual assertions of its reviewers, and that many points which the reviewers labeled as errors were differences of editorial opinion.[29] Nature acknowledged the compiled nature of some of the Britannica extracts, but denied that this invalidated the conclusions of the study.[30] Encyclopædia Britannica also argued that while the Nature study showed that the error rate between the two encyclopedias was similar, a breakdown of the errors indicated that the mistakes in Wikipedia were more often the inclusion of incorrect facts, while the mistakes in Britannica were "errors of omission", making "Britannica far more accurate than Wikipedia, according to the figures".[29] Nature has since rejected the Britannica response,[31] stating that any errors on the part of its reviewers were not biased in favor of either encyclopedia, that in some cases it used excerpts of articles from both encyclopedias, and that Britannica did not share particular concerns with Nature before publishing its "open letter" rebuttal.[32][33]
In June 2006, Roy Rosenzweig, a professor specializing in American history, published a comparison of the Wikipedia biographies of 25 Americans to the corresponding biographies found on Encarta and American National Biography Online. He wrote that Wikipedia is "surprisingly accurate in reporting names, dates, and events in U.S. history" and described some of the errors as "widely held but inaccurate beliefs". However, he stated that Wikipedia often fails to distinguish important from trivial details, and does not provide the best references. He also complained about Wikipedia's lack of "persuasive analysis and interpretations, and clear and engaging prose".[34] Wikipedia's policies on original research, including unpublished synthesis of published data, disallow new analysis and interpretation not found in reliable sources.

A web-based survey conducted from December 2005 to May 2006 by Larry Press, a professor of Information Systems at California State University at Dominguez Hills, assessed the "accuracy and completeness of Wikipedia articles".[35] Fifty people accepted an invitation to assess an article. Of the fifty, seventy-six percent (76%) agreed or strongly agreed that the Wikipedia article was accurate, and forty-six percent (46%) agreed or strongly agreed that it was complete. Eighteen people compared the article they reviewed to the article on the same topic in the Encyclopædia Britannica. Opinions on accuracy were almost equal between the two encyclopedias (6 favoring Britannica, 7 favoring Wikipedia, 5 stating they were equal), and eleven of the eighteen (61%) found Wikipedia somewhat or substantially more complete, compared to seven of the eighteen (39%) for Britannica. The survey did not attempt random selection of the participants, and it is not clear how the participants were invited.[36]
The German computing magazine c't performed a comparison of Brockhaus Multimedial, Microsoft Encarta, and the German Wikipedia in October 2004: Experts evaluated 66 articles in various fields. In overall score, Wikipedia was rated 3.6 out of 5 points (B-).[37] A second test by c't in February 2007 used 150 search terms, of which 56 were closely evaluated, to compare four digital encyclopedias: Bertelsmann Enzyklopädie 2007, Brockhaus Multimedial premium 2007, Encarta 2007 Enzyklopädie and Wikipedia. It concluded: "We did not find more errors in the texts of the free encyclopedia than in those of its commercial competitors."[38]
Viewing Wikipedia as fitting the economists' definition of a perfectly competitive marketplace of ideas, George Bragues (University of Guelph-Humber), examined Wikipedia's articles on seven top Western philosophers: Aristotle, Plato, Immanuel Kant, René Descartes, Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel, Thomas Aquinas, and John Locke. Wikipedia's articles were compared to a consensus list of themes culled from four reference works in philosophy. Bragues found that, on average, Wikipedia's articles only covered 52% of consensus themes. No errors were found, though there were significant omissions.[39]
PC Pro magazine (August 2007) asked experts to compare four articles (a small sample) in their scientific fields between Wikipedia, Britannica and Encarta. In each case Wikipedia was described as "largely sound", "well handled", "performs well", "good for the bare facts" and "broadly accurate." One article had "a marked deterioration towards the end" while another had "clearer and more elegant" writing, a third was assessed as less well written but better detailed than its competitors, and a fourth was "of more benefit to the serious student than its Encarta or Britannica equivalents." No serious errors were noted in Wikipedia articles, whereas serious errors were noted in one Encarta and one Britannica article.[40]
In October 2007, Australian magazine PC Authority published a feature article on the accuracy of Wikipedia. The article compared Wikipedia's content to other popular online encyclopedias, namely Britannica and Encarta. The magazine asked experts to evaluate articles pertaining to their field. Wikipedia was comparable to the other encyclopedias, topping the chemistry category.[41]
In December 2007, German magazine Stern published the results of a comparison between the German Wikipedia and the online version of the 15-volume edition of Brockhaus Enzyklopädie. The test was commissioned to a research institute (Cologne-based WIND GmbH), whose analysts assessed 50 articles from each encyclopedia (covering politics, business, sports, science, culture, entertainment, geography, medicine, history and religion) on four criteria (accuracy, completeness, timeliness and clarity), and judged Wikipedia articles to be more accurate on the average (1.6 on a scale from 1 to 6, versus 2.3 for Brockhaus with 1 as the best and 6 as the worst). Wikipedia's coverage was also found to be more complete and up to date; however, Brockhaus was judged to be more clearly written, while several Wikipedia articles were criticized as being too complicated for non-experts, and many as too lengthy.[42][43][44]
In its April 2008 issue British computing magazine PC Plus compared the English Wikipedia with the DVD editions of World Book Encyclopedia and Encyclopædia Britannica, assessing for each the coverage of a series of random subjects. It concluded The quality of content is good in all three cases and advised Wikipedia users Be aware that erroneous edits do occur, and check anything that seems outlandish with a second source. But the vast majority of Wikipedia is filled with valuable and accurate information.[45]
Reavley et al. (2012) compared the quality of articles on select mental health topics on Wikipedia with corresponding articles in Encyclopaedia Britannica and a psychiatry textbook. They asked experts to rate article content with regard to accuracy, up-to-dateness, breadth of coverage, referencing and readability. Wikipedia scored highest on all criteria except readability, and the authors concluded that Wikipedia is as good as or better than Britannica and a standard textbook.[9]
Expert opi
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