4
   

But if you don’t watch, it acts like a wave and can go through both slits at the same time?

 
 
Reply Thu 9 Jan, 2014 08:10 am
Well, now it is about an interesting physical question, not about English.
Would any one like to tell us more about the consciousness-affecting-particle-behavior stuff? We'd like to see pics about it.

Context:
Consider the famous two-slit experiment. When scientists watch a particle pass through two slits in a barrier, the particle behaves like a bullet and goes through one slit or the other. But if you don’t watch, it acts like a wave and can go through both slits at the same time. So how can a particle change its behavior depending on whether you watch it or not? The answer is simple – reality is a process that involves your consciousness.

More:
http://www.robertlanzabiocentrism.com/is-death-an-illusion-evidence-suggests-death-isnt-the-end/
 
View best answer, chosen by oristarA
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Jan, 2014 09:29 am
@oristarA,
A bit like Schrödinger's cat, is it?
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Jan, 2014 09:55 am
@Lordyaswas,
Lordyaswas wrote:

A bit like Schrödinger's cat, is it?


More complicated than that.
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Jan, 2014 10:07 am
@oristarA,
There's nothing more complicated than a cat.
Romeo Fabulini
  Selected Answer
 
  2  
Reply Thu 9 Jan, 2014 11:02 am
Quote:
OristarA said: So how can a particle change its behavior depending on whether you watch it or not? The answer is simple – reality is a process that involves your consciousness.

Yes the double-slit experiment has had scientists scratching their heads for years because it's as if the photons KNOW they're being watched and inexplicably change their behaviour accordingly, this vid illustrates it-

0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Jan, 2014 08:28 pm
@Lordyaswas,
Lordyaswas wrote:

There's nothing more complicated than a cat.


Humans! With thoughts and ideas that make anything alive bow before them, unless you are a cat Lordyaswas.
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Jan, 2014 03:02 am
@oristarA,
When I call my dog, he comes running.

When I call my cat, she just takes a message and promises to get back to me later.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jan, 2014 02:56 am
@Lordyaswas,
Lordyaswas wrote:

When I call my dog, he comes running.

When I call my cat, she just takes a message and promises to get back to me later.


I don't mind waiting for you to come back later. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  3  
Reply Sun 16 Feb, 2014 12:14 am
@oristarA,
The Copenhagen Interpretation of quantum mechanics states that when a system possesses different values of a dynamical variable simultaneously, each with some probability, measurement of any kind will force it to choose one and only one value of the variable. The alternate explanation is the Many Worlds Interpretation in which the universe is constantly splitting into more and more mutually unobservable universes and every possible outcome happens in one of them.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Feb, 2014 02:44 am
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:

The Copenhagen Interpretation of quantum mechanics states that when a system possesses different values of a dynamical variable simultaneously, each with some probability, measurement of any kind will force it to choose one and only one value of the variable. The alternate explanation is the Many Worlds Interpretation in which the universe is constantly splitting into more and more mutually unobservable universes and every possible outcome happens in one of them.


Cool. What force drives them to split then?
Brandon9000
 
  2  
Reply Sun 16 Feb, 2014 03:04 am
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

The Copenhagen Interpretation of quantum mechanics states that when a system possesses different values of a dynamical variable simultaneously, each with some probability, measurement of any kind will force it to choose one and only one value of the variable. The alternate explanation is the Many Worlds Interpretation in which the universe is constantly splitting into more and more mutually unobservable universes and every possible outcome happens in one of them.


Cool. What force drives them to split then?

I don't know. It's over my head, but I suspect that that is never discussed.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Sun 16 Feb, 2014 06:07 am
@oristarA,
This article is non-scientific nonsense. There is nothing "consciouslness-affecting" about the "particle behavior stuff". The writer is spouting new-age spiritualistic garbage... and throwing in random science phrases to make it sound plausible.

There are some good scientific explanations of the double slit experiment out there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iuv6hY6zsd0



Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Feb, 2014 07:26 am
The vid in my earlier post is interesting because a scientist (Prof Zeilinger) is admitting he's baffled, something scientists don't admit very often..Wink
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Sun 16 Feb, 2014 07:38 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
That video is sensationalized and misleading. It doesn't even explain the experiment correctly (or even understandably).

For example, after you have watched this, explain to me what those "detectors" are and what it means that the "pattern disappears"? For anyone who has taken an quantum mechanics, or even an optics course... this video is nonsense.
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Feb, 2014 07:52 am
Quote:
Maxdonca said: For anyone who has taken an quantum mechanics, or even an optics course... this video is nonsense.

But Prof Zeilinger in the vid has got good street cred, so why does he bravely admit he can't explain the double-slit experiment mystery?

WIKI- Anton Zeilinger is an Austrian quantum physicist who in 2008 received the Inaugural Isaac Newton Medal of the Institute of Physics (UK) for "his pioneering conceptual and experimental contributions to the foundations of quantum physics.
Zeilinger is professor of physics at the University of Vienna and Senior Scientist at the Institute for Quantum Optics and Quantum Information IQOQI at the Austrian Academy of Sciences.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Zeilinger
Brandon9000
 
  2  
Reply Sun 16 Feb, 2014 09:02 am
This is absolutely standard, and very old, quantum mechanics that is being made to sound mysterious for a popular presentation. The resolution of a superposition state into a single state upon measurement is dealt with by the Copenhagen Interpretation, so called because it was the explanation of Neils Bohr, the Danish physicist, in the 1920s. The photons are behaving like waves and creating a standard wave interference pattern. Wave particle duality is a very old idea. Counter-intuitive, certainly, just like relativity is, but this isn't the slightest bit surprising to any physicist.
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Feb, 2014 11:47 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

This article is non-scientific nonsense. There is nothing "consciouslness-affecting" about the "particle behavior stuff". The writer is spouting new-age spiritualistic garbage... and throwing in random science phrases to make it sound plausible.

There are some good scientific explanations of the double slit experiment out there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iuv6hY6zsd0




Very cool.
BTW, I failed to understand " the interference pattern appearing via the varying density of these particle hits on the screen" - the pattern hits on the screen? Does it mean the pattern occurs on the screen?

Quote:
In the basic version of this experiment, a coherent light source such as a laser beam illuminates a plate pierced by two parallel slits, and the light passing through the slits is observed on a screen behind the plate.[2][3] The wave nature of light causes the light waves passing through the two slits to interfere, producing bright and dark bands on the screen—a result that would not be expected if light consisted of classical particles.[2][4] However, the light is always found to be absorbed at the screen at discrete points, as individual particles (not waves), the interference pattern appearing via the varying density of these particle hits on the screen.[5] Furthermore, versions of the experiment that include detectors at the slits find that each detected photon passes through one slit (as would a classical particle), but not through both slits (as would a wave).[6][7][8][9][10] These results demonstrate the principle of wave–particle duality.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Feb, 2014 11:58 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Quote:
Maxdonca said: For anyone who has taken an quantum mechanics, or even an optics course... this video is nonsense.

But Prof Zeilinger in the vid has got good street cred, so why does he bravely admit he can't explain the double-slit experiment mystery?

WIKI- Anton Zeilinger is an Austrian quantum physicist who in 2008 received the Inaugural Isaac Newton Medal of the Institute of Physics (UK) for "his pioneering conceptual and experimental contributions to the foundations of quantum physics.
Zeilinger is professor of physics at the University of Vienna and Senior Scientist at the Institute for Quantum Optics and Quantum Information IQOQI at the Austrian Academy of Sciences.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Zeilinger



Excellent!
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Feb, 2014 12:17 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

This article is non-scientific nonsense. There is nothing "consciouslness-affecting" about the "particle behavior stuff". The writer is spouting new-age spiritualistic garbage... and throwing in random science phrases to make it sound plausible.

There are some good scientific explanations of the double slit experiment out there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iuv6hY6zsd0




How to explain another experiment:



Quote:
Our linear way of thinking about time is also inconsistent with another series of recent experiments. In 2002, scientists showed that particles of light “photons” knew – in advance – what their distant twins would do in the future. They tested the communication between pairs of photons. They let one photon finish its journey – it had to decide whether to be either a wave or a particle. Researchers stretched the distance the other photon took to reach its own detector. However, they could add a scrambler to prevent it from collapsing into a particle. Somehow, the first particle knew what the researcher was going to do before it happened – and across distances instantaneously as if there were no space or time between them. They decide not to become particles before their twin even encounters the scrambler. It doesn’t matter how we set up the experiment. Our mind and its knowledge is the only thing that determines how they behave. Experiments consistently confirm these observer-dependent effects.

Bizarre? Consider another experiment that was recently published in the prestigious scientific journal Science (Jacques et al, 315, 966, 2007). Scientists in France shot photons into an apparatus, and showed that what they did could retroactively change something that had already happened in the past. As the photons passed a fork in the apparatus, they had to decide whether to behave like particles or waves when they hit a beam splitter. Later on – well after the photons passed the fork – the experimenter could randomly switch a second beam splitter on and off. It turns out that what the observer decided at that point, determined what the particle actually did at the fork in the past. At that moment, the experimenter chose his past.
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Feb, 2014 01:17 pm
Quote:
Oristar said:...Scientists in France shot photons into an apparatus, and showed that what they did could retroactively change something that had already happened in the past...

That reminds me of another 'time'experiment I read about a few years ago and have been trying to find a link on the net, anybody know it?
Basically a group of people tried to influence by 'mindpower' a random number generator to produce numbers towards one end of a scale.
They were successful but nobody told them til afterwards that they'd been influencing a generator that had been running the day before, and that they'd only been seeing a recording during the test.
In other words they were influencing the generator in the past!
 

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