132
   

Why do people deny evolution?

 
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Mon 2 Feb, 2015 11:01 am
@MontereyJack,
He's fallen into the same trap that a lot of religious nutters fall in, that everybody is as thick as them, because they don't understand something, they assume nobody else can.
0 Replies
 
Quehoniaomath
 
  -2  
Mon 2 Feb, 2015 12:05 pm
I see that no answers are coming?


Gee, how surpising!
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  2  
Mon 2 Feb, 2015 02:41 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

quahog says:
Quote:
How could organs as complicated as the eye or the ear or the brain of even a tiny bird ever come about by chance or natural processes? How could a bacterial motor evolve?



Why don't you actually study some evolutionary theory, and you'd find out. These are not unanswered questions. You just refuse to look at the answers. Try Wikipedia for "evolution of the eye", or "evolution of birds", for example. Think "many small steps over a very long time".


This is so common amonst anti-sciencers and other wingnuts: http://www.trulyfallacious.com/logic/logical-fallacies/relevance/argument-from-personal-incredulity

Quote:
ARGUMENT FROM PERSONAL INCREDULITY

Asserting because one finds something difficult to understand it can’t be true.

This fallacy is based more on lack of understanding than lack of information. Often used as a means to distrust science on the basis of it being highly technical and difficult to put into layman terms, this fallacy is the standby of regressives who wish everything to remain the way things used to be. To avoid changing one’s mind, the person merely avoids advancing their understanding of the topic at hand.

The big bang theory makes no sense. How can there not be a time before the big bang? Scientists just made it all up to try and explain away God’s creation.
Something being complicated does not necessarily make it untrue. personal incredulity - thinkIf a claim is difficult to understand, it is the job of the listener to educate themselves before coming to a conclusion as to the truth value of the assertion. Until then, the conclusion should always remain at “I don’t know”.

The human mind is so complex, you can’t conclude there is no soul released after death.
On the contrary! This fallacy is commonly the basis for ghost and other “afterlife” beliefs, since the people holding the beliefs don’t understand, or refuse to acknowledge, how the mind is a demonstrable product of a physical brain. Once the brain dies, the mind no longer exists. This, naturally, can be demonstrated, as in the example of when people have lost their personalities when they suffered serious brain trauma. The mind, if separate from the physical brain, would be unaffected by brain injury. Asserting the brain is a complex machine which is not fully understood, which a true assertion, ignores the evidence of mind-brain connection being highly understood.

I don’t understand how life can just move from bacteria to humans all on its own. There had to be an intelligent designer behind it!
One of the staples of the creationist (also known as intelligent design) proponent, this argument relies on ignorance of the process of evolution in order to claim a magical designer must have done the work. This assertion, of course, is not a logical conclusion to not understanding evolution, as there is no reason to think a god, if one even existed, had any hand in the evolution of life on Earth.


Sadly, they don't give a tinker's cuss about logic, so explaining this to them is like talking to a brick wall.
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Mon 2 Feb, 2015 07:06 pm
I just caught up on this again. Brilliant.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1cu5kf_bbc-david-attenborough-s-rise-of-animals-triumph-of-the-vertebrates-2-of-2-dawn-of-the-mammals-2013_tv
0 Replies
 
ellease1
 
  -1  
Tue 3 Feb, 2015 07:35 pm
@parados,
Quote:
It is all to do with you taking yourself to be a body that is born and will die.

Quote:
I didn't take myself anywhere.

Who said you did? You take yourself to "BE" a body, not to go. Nobody goes anywhere, all bodies take in information and YOU identify with this information.
Quote:
Your language is based around this premise.

Quote:
My language has nothing to do with my body.

Learn to read to understand. I said "based around the body" of course the language has nothing to do with the body, it is a creation of the mind so is the body itself.
Quote:
It's all in my mind.Your statement isn't a contradiction. It's just nonsense.

But in your own admission you have just said it is all in you mind. Do you actually understand the meaning of the word contradiction ? My stance is that it is all in dreaming. Where is the contradiction ? Apart from the ones you inadvertently make yourself
All language is a contradict in fact one word can have several different meanings and contradictions simultaneously.
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There's nothing confusing about what I'm say.

Quote:
Of course what you are saying is confusing. First you say that I think language comes from birth and death when I said no such thing and think no such thing.

Laughing Laughing Was you smoking when you wrote this? Who said anything about language coming from birth and death are you nuts? Birth and death is an illusion. It is a concept that is mentally formed in the mind. Nobody is dying and nobody is being born. An appearance cannot be consider real because it disappears. All appearances are born of the imagination.
Quote:
It is simple talk. It is your mind that is confused. Confusion and mind are synonymous. You problem is you take the inside to be outside and the outside to be inside.

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I guarantee you are not inside me. I wouldn't create such nonsense..

Laughing Laughing No I am not and I never said I was. Again learn to read to understand. that which is outside is only an appearance. I am not in the appearance. When you look at something it appears in your brain. You are looking at a signal.
Quote:
Your thought and feelings are external but in your unawareness you identify with them and take them as personal.

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By that argument I am your thoughts and feelings so why do you disagree with your own thoughts outside you?

By that argument "I am " is the knowledge that you are. You are not my thoughts and feelings neither are you your own. Thoughts and feelings come and go. They are like clouds of smoke, what remains when they go?
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All you see outside is actual constructed inside you head.

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Good thing I don't see you then.

You don't see anything outside. You receive signals which are then interpreted by the brain. What is seen and that which sees it are only mental constructs. There is only seeing the seer and the seen are contain in seeing.
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It is a well know scientific fact of modern science today,

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I wonder which science journal you got this from. Could you enlighten us since you are in my mind and should therefor be under my complete control?

It is your world you have in mind, not me . If you exercise some intelligence you will come to know that you are the proof of everything, no further proof is needed. Of course you can read scientific journals if you like, most are written by ignorant scientist. At best they push the frontier of ignorance back.
ellease1
 
  -1  
Tue 3 Feb, 2015 08:04 pm
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
Why don't you actually study some evolutionary theory, and you'd find out. These are not unanswered questions. You just refuse to look at the answers. Try Wikipedia for "evolution of the eye", or "evolution of birds", for example. Think "many small steps over a very long time".


Why don't you study yourself ? If you employ some intelligence along the way you will realise that the concept of evolution is strung on a thread of memory. You loose it and you will not only forget your concept of evolution, you will not even recognise your own mother as your own mother .
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  2  
Tue 3 Feb, 2015 08:17 pm
Synopsis for those who don't want to reald all of elease1's posts:

ellease1
 
  -1  
Wed 4 Feb, 2015 03:49 am
@FBM,
Quote:
Synopsis for those who don't want to reald all of elease1's posts:


Laughing Laughing Laughing Generally speaking you have just uploaded a video FBM. Seven year olds are doing that on a daily basis.

Now if you are still sucking on the nipple of social normalcy then it's a sure sign you have not yet started to think for yourself. No doubt you are still going by what your early learning books have taught you and giving yourself a pat on the back and a few gold stars to boot for your achievements. In this instance this may appeal to those of you who are still in such a position.

However, remember, what you see is not what it ought to be, insight is kosher, if you can apply it permanently and not just when you bump your head you will see to understand.
FBM
 
  1  
Wed 4 Feb, 2015 03:57 am
@ellease1,
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/icon_salut.gif
ellease1
 
  -1  
Wed 4 Feb, 2015 06:15 am
@FBM,
Very Happy Remember FBM Exclamation think before you ink!
FBM
 
  3  
Wed 4 Feb, 2015 06:38 am
@ellease1,
I think before I get engaged with an anti-intellectual wingnut. Is that close enough?
parados
 
  2  
Wed 4 Feb, 2015 08:36 am
@ellease1,
Boy, for something that is only in my head you sure try to spout a lot of nonsense.

Quote:

Your language is based around this premise.

Learn to read to understand. I said "based around the body"

You are now arguing that the body is your premise? It seems I read fine. You just don't understand your own statements. The one thing I am taking from all this is that you are a complete fool.

Quote:
all bodies take in information

My stance is that it is all in dreaming.

If it is all dreaming then why did you just say the body takes in information? I don't think I am the one with the contradiction problem.

Quote:
An appearance cannot be consider real because it disappears. All appearances are born of the imagination.

Again learn to read to understand. that which is outside is only an appearance. I am not in the appearance. When you look at something it appears in your brain. You are looking at a signal.

How can I look at something that is only my imagination? On one hand you say I can look at something and then you say I can't. If your "premise" which does NOT mean body, is that everything is in my mind and nothing is outside my mind then you would be in my mind. I guarantee I would never create such nonsense.


When I exercise intelligence I find that your statements are filled with nonsense that you don't even understand.
parados
 
  4  
Wed 4 Feb, 2015 08:37 am
@ellease1,
Quote:

Laughing Laughing Laughing Generally speaking you have just uploaded a video FBM. Seven year olds are doing that on a daily basis.

That would be your imagination. You constantly defeat your own argument ellease. Stop arguing with the signals in your brain. It makes you look bi-polar.
ellease1
 
  -1  
Thu 5 Feb, 2015 01:17 pm
@FBM,
Quote:
I think before I get engaged with an anti-intellectual wingnut. Is that close enough?


Really, Is that what you call it? You certainly make a lot of intellectual noise FBM that's for sure. However talking about wingnuts you seem to have a few nuts and bolts loose yourself, Parados makes for a good spanner. You should engage him "I think before I engage" or maybe you should try engaging before thinking, it does help especially when there is a lot of intellectual rattle going on void of intelligence.
ellease1
 
  -1  
Thu 5 Feb, 2015 03:39 pm
@parados,
Quote:
Boy, for something that is only in my head you sure try to spout a lot of nonsense.

Learn to read to understand, the subject cannot be an object in the consciousness no more than the body of torch in its beam that it shines. In your head an image of your world appears. You have an idea of me which is contained in the image you have of the world.

Quote:
You are now arguing that the body is your premise? It seems I read fine. You just don't understand your own statements. The one thing I am taking from all this is that you are a complete fool.

Again. Learn to read to understand I said your language is based around the premise, the proposition, the idea that you are the body "now you are saying that the body is your premise" That is your argument. I use the word premise in relation to logic. Both logic and experience tells you the notion you are a body is idiotic. You may disagree but that's ignorance for you. What give the body it's sentience? It is the consciousness. Consciousness is at source. In your ignorance you think the body is conscious, it is the indwelling consciousness that give the form its sentience; it is consciousness that assume the many form, the human body being but one of them.

Quote:
If it is all dreaming then why did you just say the body takes in information? I don't think I am the one with the contradiction problem.


The body is a mental formation based on the information; the knowledge that you are. It gets its sentience from the reality that you impart to it. It is invariably absent when the mind itself is in abeyance - still it functions. Thinking is dreaming; it is a mental state under observation. It is all a case of knowing the difference between the actual from the remembered. One has the stamp of reality and the other is relative to the content of the consciousness which is contained in awareness.

On the surface of you skin there are receptors taking in information. Your five senses also take in information This information is sent to your brain via electrical impulses. It is these electrical signals that forms the basis for you dream world and your identity within that dream world, your imagination does the rest. From this information the idea is form that you area a body. Your body is merely the space in which it occupies your mind is merely the time in which it moves in. There is no contradiction here just a misunderstanding. I suggest you go get a dictionary preferably one with foot notes.

Quote:
How can I look at something that is only my imagination? On one hand you say I can look at something and then you say I can't. If your "premise" which does NOT mean body, is that everything is in my mind and nothing is outside my mind then you would be in my mind. I guarantee I would never create such nonsense.


You are not looking you are only imagining; dreaming, there is a difference. There is nothing but consciousness but you imagine you see a bird or a tree.
Whatever you think you see you create it in your imagination.
Your eyes are only receptors they receive signals and project. Your external world is created inside your head, real sight is insight, but this sight is neither out nor in. It is the mind that creates these distinctions of In and out there is only seeing the seer and the seen are contained in seeing.

Quote:
When I exercise intelligence I find that your statements are filled with nonsense that you don't even understand.

You are exercising something no doubt, However, describing it as intelligence is a matter of opinion Sure you find something but that is purely based on your ignorance.
parados
 
  1  
Thu 5 Feb, 2015 04:06 pm
@ellease1,
Quote:

Learn to read to understand, the subject cannot be an object in the consciousness no more than the body of torch in its beam that it shines.

Did you intend to use the double negative?
parados
 
  1  
Thu 5 Feb, 2015 04:11 pm
@ellease1,
Quote:
Again. Learn to read to understand I said your language is based around the premise, the proposition, the idea that you are the body "now you are saying that the body is your premise"


You said this...

Quote:
Your language is based around this premise.

When asked to clarify you stated this...

Quote:
Learn to read to understand. I said "based around the body"

You are clearly saying based around this premise means based around the body. That means the body is the premise. There is no other way to interpret your statements without ignoring what you said.
parados
 
  1  
Thu 5 Feb, 2015 04:13 pm
@ellease1,
Quote:
Your eyes are only receptors they receive signals and project. Your external world is created inside your head, real sight is insight, but this sight is neither out nor in. It is the mind that creates these distinctions of In and out there is only seeing the seer and the seen are contained in seeing.

Aren't you the clever little shyte? Do you know what equivocation is? You might want to look it up. Changing the meaning if sight in the middle of your argument may be artistic but it doesn't convey any intelligent argument.
ellease1
 
  0  
Thu 5 Feb, 2015 05:00 pm
@parados,
Quote:
That would be your imagination. You constantly defeat your own argument ellease. Stop arguing with the signals in your brain. It makes you look bi-polar.


It is all a question of focus. As a body your focus is in time and space; as consciousness it is in awareness all of consciousness is contained in awareness.
Mood swings are the traits of a personality. In my world there are no persons, only consciousness. As a matter of fact the person does not exist, it is merely a figment of the imagination.

When it is known as such there is no defeat because there is no argument; point simple point blank, you cannot argue with the facts. In your world it may appear to you as an arguments as a result of you seeing the world through the contortion of the mind. You create these contortion through the lack of discernment and inadvertence because you are not aware of the facts.

There is a principle prior to the birth, the actual state of affairs emanate from this standpoint. It is spaceless, timeless and causeless. There are no bodies since there is no energy to create any, there exist only a potential.

In ignorance you take yourself to be a body, therefore your concerns are based around the body and the world in which it occupies.

At the kindergarten level you talk of gods religion and evolution. Raise the level of consciousness and all this pales into insignificance. How did I come to be ? Who or rather what am I? Become the nature of your enquires.
0 Replies
 
ellease1
 
  0  
Thu 5 Feb, 2015 05:25 pm
@parados,
Quote:
You are clearly saying based around this premise means based around the body. That means the body is the premise. There is no other way to interpret your statements without ignoring what you said.


Pulling sentences out of their original context enables them to be bent and twisted in any fashion you like. And that is the problem with language, one word can have several different meaning and contradictions simtanrously. What I'm clearly saying is that you are not a body you can misconstrued this any how you like. Remember we are dealing with the facts, words to all intent and purpose can only convey them.
 

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