Is Jesus God?

@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

...I contend that the lack of what you call credible evidence is also by design.

This is something that I bring up from time to time. A god that uses its superpowers to hide from us weak humans, then demands that we believe anyway. Sounds petty, cruel and narcissistic to me. Not the kind of being that deserves to be worshipped, in my opinion. More like an abusive parent or partner.

Quote:

The only evidence God intended was:
1. What you find in your own character and longings.
2. The word of mouth from those who have experienced him.

I also have recently brought up the fact that so many people seem to be so eager to speak for that god's thoughts, wishes and intentions in almost any context, and then defend the dogma that this god is beyond human comprehension.

1 Reply

@FBM,

FBM quote: "and then defend the dogma that this god is beyond human comprehension. "

You will never hear me defend that lie.

1 Reply

@Leadfoot,

"Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised, and his greatness is unsearchable," (Psalm 145:3).

"no one comprehends the things of God except the Spirit of God" (1 Corinthians 2:10-12).

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts" (Isaiah 55:8-9).

"Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!" (Romans 11:33)

1 Reply

@FBM,

The whole key was in your second example which you either misquoted or took out of context. Here it is verbatim:

1 Corinthians 2:9-11 KJV
[9] But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. [10] But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. [11] For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but [by] the Spirit of God.

I added the implied [by] in that last verse in case the 'kings English' is not clear to some readers.

1 Reply

@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

The whole key was in your second example which you either misquoted or took out of context. Here it is verbatim:

1 Corinthians 2:9-11 KJV
[9] But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. [10] But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. [11] For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Fine. I'm not going to split hairs over contradictions in the scriptures. There are too many. In the end, the scriptures are the claim, not the evidence. We may as well be arguing over passages from Harry Potter.

1 Reply

@FBM,

Quote:

Fine. I'm not going to split hairs over contradictions in the scriptures. There are too many. In the end, the scriptures are the claim, not the evidence. We may as well be arguing over passages from Harry Potter.

Hey, you are the one that introduced scriptures. I try to avoid doing that unless both parties accept them as a worth while source. If you don't, we'll just stick to logical arguments.

1 Reply

@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
Fine. I'm not going to split hairs over contradictions in the scriptures. There are too many. In the end, the scriptures are the claim, not the evidence. We may as well be arguing over passages from Harry Potter.

Hey, you are the one that introduced scriptures. I try to avoid doing that unless both parties accept them as a worth while source. If you don't, we'll just stick to logical arguments.

Sounds good. But I'll just keep returning to the lack of evidence thing.

1 Reply

@FBM,

FBM wrote:

. . . Sounds good. But I'll just keep returning to the lack of evidence thing.

And I'll continue to remind you that plenty of evidence exists. It's just that you wish to apply the evidence according to FBM.

1 Reply

@neologist,

You and I have been over that and found no common ground. The way that you interpret the "evidence" of seeing stars in the sky, for example, isn't falsifiable. You look at the stars and infer a god. Others don't. By itself, it's not more evidence for than against, so it's not evidence at all.

If you go further and do experiments to measure the distances to the stars, their composition, velocity, mass, etc, you accumulate a body of evidence that still doens't point to a supernatural explanation. The more data you have, and the more complete your mundane cosmological model, the less probable the supramundane explanation becomes. Being inferential, it's an asymptotic approach to zero, so it's out of line to declare that it's 100% sure that there's no god. However, it's also out of line to try to wedge a god into that ever-decreasing gap.

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

Bite me.

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@FBM,

God shows to those who seek truth. Why do you think Christians always see things and wonders and experience things you have no idea about?

Because we seeked the truth buddy.

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@Johnjohnjohn,

More claim, more fallacy (ad populum), still no evidence. I grew up in it and "experienced" the same things, just like I was indoctrinated/brainwashed to experience them. I never experienced much in the way of clarity until I understood how it was all contrived.

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@Johnjohnjohn,

Johnjohnjohn wrote:

God shows to those who seek truth. Why do you think Christians always see things and wonders and experience things you have no idea about?

Because we seeked the truth buddy.

Are you prepared to accept judgment with all others who claim to be christian?

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@neologist,

At every breath you take, for any step you walk, with every action you do, there is an opposite and equal reaction...your life is judgement itself made thing ! You are not being judged for personal responsibility but merely for faulting like a lamp can fault. Hope that helps...

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@Fil Albuquerque,

I had in mind the elastic morality of some nominal christians. The ethnic bloodshed in Rwanda is an example that comes to mind. There are others.

After learning of the Reichskonkordat, I knew I could no longer support Catholicism.

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Yes spiritually he is definitely God, physically he is not, like he said "the son of man".

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@Amoh5,

Do you have a source I can check on the first part of your statement my friend?

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@Smileyrius,

Hello my Christian brother, its always a joy and a blessing to be able to speak with you. Our Lord Jesus always says God is spirit which is within him and he in God the Father. He often refers to "the son of man" which he is referring to his physical body. You will find it all in the gospels of John in the New Testament. I just finished work and saw your post, I thought awesome, a happy human being to talk to for a change. I find a lot of people on A2k are very unhappy people, I hope they cheer up somehow. You always make us smile brother, you are good medicine for us all to help make us smile again

1 Reply

@Amoh5,

John's gospel reads like giberish if you assume Jesus and God are the same being. How do you get around that? Why would God call Jesus his "Only begotten Son" if they were the same being? When Jesus was baptized and God spoke and said "This is my Son in whom I am well pleased", was Jesus being a ventriloquist?

1 Reply

@Smileyrius,

John 4:24 God is spirit... ------------------------------------------------------------John 14:10-11 Lord Jesus in God the Father..... ------------------------------------------------------------John 6:27, John 8:28 The son of man... ------------------------------------------------------------There are heaps more examples in the New Testament you've just got to read it, yes a lot of reading I would say but its good reading of our Lord Jesus. Have an awesome day my brother and God bless you

0 Replies

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