@Krumple
Quote:There are other aspects of the bible that contradict the notion that Jesus believed he was special or god or the son of god or a unique prophet. Just before he was going to his final moments he was pleading with god and asking why he had been forsaken. Now this doesn't make any sense if he knew he was on a special mission to save mankind.
A person who knew they had a destiny that would save the souls of every man woman and child wouldn't plead to their god asking why they are being punished or sentence to death. It makes no sense. So the existence of this scenario in the bible already puts Jesus into a position where he had no idea who he was or that he was anything special.
There are of course other passages that also point to Jesus not thinking of himself as anything any more special than any other person. But these lines are usually and typically glossed over because the whole premise of christianity is built upon Jesus being a significant super human who had a destiny to fulfill. If he was just an ordinary person who had some great wisdom to share then christianity loses it's fluff and security blanket.
The correlated scenario of the old prophecies and visions to be
fulfilled by Yeshu (Jesus) is what that phrase is about.
Reading the relates about Yeshu, he seems to identify himself with the old prophecies about a messiah. The phrase
... why have you forsaken me? is the first words of Psalm 22.
You might find a similitude between the narration of Psalm 22 with the narration of the Gospels about his suffering, the "nailing of hands and feet", when he was thirsty, the mockery from others, his clothes etc. of Yeshu in his last day.
Here a partial copy of Psalm 22:
Quote:Psalm 22 New International Version (NIV)
Psalm 22
For the director of music. To the tune of “The Doe of the Morning.” A psalm of David
1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from my cries of anguish?
2 My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, but I find no rest.
3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;
you are the one Israel praises.
4 In you our ancestors put their trust;
they trusted and you delivered them.
5 To you they cried out and were saved;
in you they trusted and were not put to shame.
6 But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by everyone, despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads.
8 “He trusts in the Lord,” they say,
“let the Lord rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
since he delights in him.”
9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.
10 From birth I was cast on you;
from my mother’s womb you have been my God.
11 Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.
12 Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.
13 Roaring lions that tear their prey
open their mouths wide against me.
14 I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted within me.
15 My mouth is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.
16 Dogs surround me,
a pack of villains encircles me;
they pierce my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them
and cast lots for my garment.
19 But you, Lord, do not be far from me.
You are my strength; come quickly to help me.
20 Deliver me from the sword,
my precious life from the power of the dogs.
21 Rescue me from the mouth of the lions;
save me from the horns of the wild oxen.
22 I will declare your name to my people;
in the assembly I will praise you.
23 You who fear the Lord, praise him!
All you descendants of Jacob, honor him!
Revere him, all you descendants of Israel!
24 For he has not despised or scorned
the suffering of the afflicted one;
he has not hidden his face from him
but has listened to his cry for help....
