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Naysayers! Believers! Draw your swords!

 
 
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 12:26 pm
State your best arguments in behalf of your beliefs. Subject them to excision by the razors of your fellow A2kers.

But, please.
No personal attacks.
Try to avoid long lists. I know I can think of only one or two things at a time.

Here's my first asseveration:
2Timothy 3:16 implies that all of God's activities of the so called 'Old Testament' should harmonize with the teachings of the apostles.

I know the naysayers can feast on this. But what about the believers?
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Type: Question • Score: 5 • Views: 8,756 • Replies: 125

 
MattDavis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 12:56 pm
@neologist,
Are you coming from the perspective that canonical scriptures are inerrant, or do you accept textual criticism as having validity?
I am re-downloading e-Sword if you would like to discuss this from a scholarly text view point.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 01:04 pm
@MattDavis,
Textual criticism should have some explanation consistent with the idea that any God powerful enough to inspire truth must, of necessity, be capable of protecting the message.
MattDavis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 01:09 pm
@neologist,
Is that a 'no' then?
I didn't mean I wish to use textual criticism to invalidate your beliefs I merely am asking if you would like to discuss the origins of the message.
E-sword by the way is a Christian evangelizing tool, it provides various translations of the Bible including in its original languages.
In the case of Timothy this is an ancient Greek dialect.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 01:10 pm
@MattDavis,
Don't seem to be able to download your link to my android. I'll try again later
MattDavis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 01:12 pm
@neologist,
It has been a few years since I used it.
I used it then on a PC, as I am again doing now.
Still downloading..... Very Happy
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 01:13 pm
@MattDavis,
Can't hurt to try
MattDavis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 01:24 pm
@neologist,
While I wait, did you know that Martin Luther used to call James the "gospel of straw"? This was primarily due to messages within James which contradict the sola fide doctrine (that salvation is through faith alone).
"Faith without works is dead." etc.
James 2:14-26
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 01:31 pm
@MattDavis,
Martin Luther had a few things right.
I seem to remember he also preached that Jews should be boiled in oil. Or, just thrown out of the country. I'll find the quote somwhere
MattDavis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 01:50 pm
@neologist,
He was certainly influenced heavily by competing aristocracies and the mercantile classes. There are many political overtones and undertones in his work. Luther was a man plagued by many doubts, hardly surprising that his distrusting tendencies would lead to solipsism.
0 Replies
 
MattDavis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 02:18 pm
@neologist,
Regarding 2 Timothy 3:16
Here is the KJV with Strong's numbers.
AllG3956 scriptureG1124 is given by inspiration of God,G2315 andG2532 is profitableG5624 forG4314 doctrine,G1319 forG4314 reproof,G1650 forG4314 correction,G1882 forG4314 instructionG3809 inG1722 righteousness:G1343

This is the "original" in Greek. In this word order. Also with Strong's numbers.
πασαG3956 A-NSF γραφηG1124 N-NSF θεοπνευστοςG2315 A-NSF καιG2532 CONJ ωφελιμοςG5624 A-NSM προςG4314 PREP διδασκαλιανG1319 N-ASF προςG4314 PREP ελεγχονG1650 N-ASM προςG4314 PREP επανορθωσινG1882 N-ASF προςG4314 PREP παιδειανG3809 N-ASF τηνG3588 T-ASF ενG1722 PREP δικαιοσυνηG1343 N-DSF

From the context of the chapter is seem clear that this and the very next "verse" are a part of the same "sentence". Here is a little closer translation IMHO:
2Ti 3:16-17
All Scripture (probably reference to Hebrew and some of Paul's works) is God-breathed (inspired) and profitable (beneficial) for doctrine (teaching method), for convincing, for correction (bringing other's into line), for instruction in righteousness, so that the man of God (people of Theos) may be perfected (completed, also in a sense re-freshened), being fully furnished for every good work (beneficial actions).

The bulk of the 3rd chapter in 2 Timothy seems an appeal to correct the behavior of other followers of Paul's teachings. It seems primarily a call toward ethical behavior, using the authority of Hebrew and Pauline texts to add validity.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 03:35 pm
@MattDavis,
And the inference is.. .
MattDavis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 03:46 pm
@neologist,
Inference to what?
I thought we were discussing the meaning of 2nd Timothy.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 03:54 pm
@neologist,
I have no beliefs.

My strongest argument about that is...

...well, I just have no beliefs.

I have guesses.

Would you like to hear my strongest arguments about my guesses?

If "yes"...on any particular subject?
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 03:56 pm
You already know my thoughts on the topic.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 04:18 pm
@MattDavis,
MattDavis wrote:

Inference to what?
I thought we were discussing the meaning of 2nd Timothy.

Sorry. Not easy to reply at length on a phone.
Inference; or meaning that Jehovah's method of installing the nation of Israel in the promised land is in full harmony with Jesus' message of deliverance.
MattDavis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 04:20 pm
@neologist,
What? Where are you getting that from in 2nd Timothy?
As far as I know Jehovah isn't even mentioned anywhere in that entire epistle.
Nor Yahweh.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 05:09 pm
@MattDavis,
Uh
Jehovah is God's personal name.
A fact seduously ignored by many professed christians
MattDavis
 
  0  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 05:11 pm
@neologist,
neo wrote:
Jehovah is God's personal name.

That's news to me. Where does that word appear in scripture?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 05:14 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

You already know my thoughts on the topic.


Yes Edgar. And see here where I have sliced and diced with my cool knife.

http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/neologist/ForEdgar.JPG

Oh wait! Now the other folks can't see them.
Durntobeitall! I was hoping to get some help from my fellow believers...

Would you mind posting a few for their sake?

Please?
 

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