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What is your reaction to Mel Gibson's "The Passion"?

 
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Mar, 2004 10:35 am
Everyone missed the point of the move? You make Jesus sound like he was an alien. It is quite clear in the Bible that he was a flesh-and-blood human. Whether you want to believe that and whether you want to believe in Immaculate Conception or the Resurrection has nothing to do with the quality of this movie. I believe his point was lost in the hyperbole of his visual embellishments. I'd like you to find in the Bible where Pilate's wife hands out towels and whether or not Mary was even at the scourging. Mel inventions, perhaps?
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Mar, 2004 10:36 am
Close examination of Mel's efforts and the seams show, begin to tear and the movie begins to fall apart.
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AmericanIcon
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2004 05:08 pm
Lightwizard wrote:
My intention was not to dislike the film before I'd seen it. I also never said Mel was in it for the money.

lying on both counts, tsk tsk.

People hated it before they saw it because it dealt with a controversial topic that no other director had the testicular fortitude to tackle. Kudos to Gibson.
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2004 05:13 pm
I'm waiting for the claymation version. Those are always much better. Razz
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Apr, 2004 07:03 pm
You'd better read the TOS before posting ad hominem attacks on members, Americanicon, or you won't last here very long.
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BlueMonkey
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Apr, 2004 03:06 pm
AmericanIcon wrote:
Lightwizard wrote:
My intention was not to dislike the film before I'd seen it. I also never said Mel was in it for the money.

lying on both counts, tsk tsk.

People hated it before they saw it because it dealt with a controversial topic that no other director had the testicular fortitude to tackle. Kudos to Gibson.


Quote:
You'd better read the TOS before posting ad hominem attacks on members, Americanicon, or you won't last here very long.


Rolling Eyes
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Apr, 2004 03:08 pm
...and?
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husker
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Apr, 2004 03:22 pm
AmericanIcon wrote:
Lightwizard wrote:
My intention was not to dislike the film before I'd seen it. I also never said Mel was in it for the money.

lying on both counts, tsk tsk.

People hated it before they saw it because it dealt with a controversial topic that no other director had the testicular fortitude to tackle. Kudos to Gibson.



Dunno LW was reading your posts on the Betty Bowers reviews Mel Gibson's film The Passion of Christ - discussion and I dunno - you do kind of in an indirect way :wink:
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Apr, 2004 03:32 pm
Indirect way? Is this an interpretation of what I said or what? Just quote me the specifics and I'll decide if there is any mea culpa required. Otherwise, I don't believe this poster who straffed the site with several insults and innuendos on several other discussions and then dissapeared into the night read any of what I wrote on the Betty Bowers. I had seen a group of trailers at the studio that amounted to seeing the gist of the film and then saw the final cut a month later. The timing may have been confusing.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Apr, 2004 03:47 pm
BTW, those comments are taken out of context displaying a reticence to actually rebut the sum total of the criticism.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 11:22 am
Not mine but some Russian reactions:
[
Quote:
size=18]High Passions [/size]

Normally critical of the Catholic artistic tradition, Orthodox Christians have found much to admire in Mel Gibson's controversial new film.

By Andrei Zolotov Jr.

Leaving Moscow's Orthodox churches last Maundy Thursday after the morning service commemorating the Last Supper, one could overhear conversations seemingly anathema for the time and place: Clergy and parishioners, who would normally refrain from entertainment during these most somber days of the year, were enthusiastically exchanging information about movie theaters to see whether they could make it to a film in time to return for the evening service.

Yet the film they were talking about is not quite entertainment. The seemingly innocuous question -- "Have you seen the movie?" -- heard almost everywhere in church circles this past week refers to only one thing: Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ."

The film, which has been accused in the West of excessive cruelty in depicting Christ's suffering, and anti-Semitism in its portrayal of Jews and their role in the crucifixion, officially opened in Moscow on April 7, in the middle of the Holy Week preceding Easter, and began regular showings in Moscow and St. Petersburg the following day. Later this month, it is to reach movie theaters in 40 Russian regions, according to the film's distributor, Central Partnership.

A fair amount of ink has been spilled over the film in Russia since mid-March, when the distributor held previews for priests and the press. But despite the traditional Orthodox attitude of opposition (or at least extreme caution) toward non-iconographical depictions of the Gospel, the film has been largely accepted by Orthodox Christians. Normally critical of Roman Catholics' alleged proselytizing activities in Russia, they have found common enemies with the traditionalist Catholic director in modern secularism, pleasure-seeking and political correctness, and have expressed praise for the film and its potential missionary impact.

"The film has overcome [my] prejudices and doubts," said Archpriest Maxim Kozlov, rector of Moscow University's St. Tatiana Chapel and associate professor at Moscow Theological Academy, in an interview published in Izvestia. "It is almost astonishing for the present state of cinematography and public consciousness -- I had not expected that such a profound and sincere return to the foundations of our faith would be possible in Western society. I think that 'The Passion of the Christ' has already become a fact not of cinema history, but of the religious history of Christianity."

The Orthodox reaction to Gibson's movie stands in sharp contrast to the attitude taken to Martin Scorsese's "The Last Temptation of Christ" (1988). When that film was shown on NTV television in 1997 despite protests by Church and State Duma officials and a mass rally by Orthodox Christians outside the Ostankino television center, it became a flashpoint for the conflict between freedom of speech and freedom of conscience.

Yet the difference between the two movies was evident in the West as well. While Scorsese's film, based on a novel by iconoclastic author Nikos Kazantzakis, uses the Holy Scripture as a pretext for artistic expression and provokes traditional Christians, Gibson's film was conceived as a traditionalist Christian manifesto from the very start.

Archpriest Vsevolod Chaplin, deputy head of the Moscow Patriarchate's Department of External Relations, praised "The Passion" for portraying the Gospel without personal interpretation. "What Gibson produced is far superior to previous attempts to film the Gospel," Chaplin was quoted as saying by the Moscow Patriarchate's official newspaper, Tserkovny Vestnik, which dedicated a full spread of its Easter issue to discussion of the film. "It is favorably different from sugary or excessively 'social' images of Lord Jesus, which have so far been created by Western movie makers."

Bishop Mark of Yegorievsk, the highest-ranking Moscow Patriarchate official who has voiced his opinion to date, attributed the film's accent on Christ's bodily suffering, which is uncharacteristic of Orthodoxy, to Catholicism, which places greater emphasis on Christ's human nature. But he also defended the film from secular critics.

"Naturally, it is the film's minus from an Orthodox perspective," he said at a news conference in March. "But on the other hand, this minus turns in part into a plus when we talk about our contemporaries watching the movie. If a person is spiritually dead, he needs a spiritual shock in order to be revived."

A source in the Moscow Patriarchate said this week that Patriarch Alexy II had not yet seen the film, but that he is likely to do so and will express his opinion later this month.

Among the film's most divisive aspects in the West has been its perceived anti-Semitism. So far, however, that has not been the case in Russia. One reason might be that, while the Roman Catholic Church has gone to great lengths in recent decades to spare Jews from responsibility for Christ's crucifixion (most notably at the Second Vatican Council, whose rulings Gibson opposes), nothing of the sort has taken place in the Russian Orthodox Church or in Russian society in general.

"It is a historical fact that they [the Jews] crucified him," said Sergei Savelyev, a doctor who was approached for an interview as he was leaving the film's first public screening in Moscow on April 7. "For us, he is God's son. For them, he is a criminal."

Yet like many Russians, including film critics and church officials, Savelyev discards suggestions that such views could be seen by some as anti-Semitic and said accusations against the film were purely political. "If America fought England for independence and made a movie about it today, is it perceived as anti-English? No. Why should this be perceived as anti-Semitism?"

In his interview with Tserkovny Vestnik, Bishop Mark took pains to explain why the film is not anti-Semitic. "According to the teachings of the Church, Christ was crucified not by the will of these people, but in redemption for our sins," he was quoted as saying.

Yet Yevgeny Satanovsky, President of the Russian Jewish Congress, said that he had, in fact, found the film anti-Semitic. "The film was shot by the heirs of those Romans who enjoyed executions and torture in Judea 2,000 years ago," Satanovsky said. "This tradition moved on to Christianity -- the tradition of cruelty, the tradition of inquisition, of Jewish pogroms and of blaming someone else for your own evil-doing."

So why isn't the Russian Jewish Congress or any other Jewish organization speaking out? Satanovsky points to prevailing atheism rather than to fear of anti-Semitic reprisals. In his opinion, Russia is a predominantly irreligious country and takes the film less seriously than in the United States. "We, like the Chinese, like the French after the French Revolution, are far from religion and will not get closer," he said.

Other onlookers have pointed out the absence of a culture of political correctness in Russia. According to Arkady Kovelman, director of the Center for Jewish Studies and Civilization at Moscow State University, tolerance for politically incorrect ideas has adversely affected the Jews. "In our country, Jews had indeed crucified Christ," he said with a laugh.

But Archpriest Maxim Kozlov describes the "lower level of political correctness" as a positive sign.

"If in France any insufficiently laudatory opinion of Jews qualifies as anti-Semitism, we have not yet reached this mad degree of political correctness," Kozlov said in an interview this week. "And maybe Jewish organizations in Russia are more reasonable and treat their role in Russian society with greater responsibility."

source: The Moscow Times
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Apr, 2004 11:31 am
If they film has done anything, it has sparked controversy over God preordaining that his Son would be put to death for our sins. In other words, a set-up. That the Russian Orthodox version of Christianity still recognize that Jews killed Christ is an interesting revelation -- is the film really bringing Christians together? Maybe for two hours in the dark of a movie theater. It certainly isn't a tool for proselytizing.
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BlueMonkey
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 10:16 am
Lightwizard wrote:
...and?


whining about name calling is what the eye rolling is all about.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 10:36 am
Who was whining? It's a simple fact -- when you sign into the group, you agree to the rules of the TOS. For a newbie who comes onto the site and posts several ad hominem attacks (the one on this thread was not the only one), it's best to warn them before they continue the behaviour. Some of the members who have been with A2K for along time can be provoked into violating the TOS and should also always be warned. That poster, I suspect, was a clone of someone banned from A2K.

So I suggest you stop whining.
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