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Obama, understanding birther issue

 
 
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2011 09:56 pm
I'm constantly seeing anti-birthers smacking down birthers saying they don't believe Obama was born in the United States. However, it was my understanding that, that's not the issue at all!! The issue has been if he was born from natural born parents (with an "s"). And my understanding was that the founders rightfully thought out that any of our Presidents should not have either parent with allegance to any other country.

Obama even provided us with a good example. When he was first elected he shockenly sent back a sculptured bust of Winston Churchill. The reason he did this was because his grandfather had taken some mis-treatment from them during some past war.

This is exactly the thinking the founders had when they concluded that any and all Presidents (except those most immediate to the actual constitution who were grandfathered in) should be born from natural born parents. I don't know the findings of this, this is just the reason but I also don't think anyone has the right to screw w/ the meaning and purpose - it is what it is and it has worked very well for us.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 12 • Views: 2,454 • Replies: 55

 
Rockhead
 
  2  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2011 10:09 pm
@smokey888x2,
I agree. shockenly behavior.

what exactly is your understanding of the birther issue?

I'm curious...
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  3  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2011 10:10 pm
@smokey888x2,
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2009/02/20/busted-the-churchill-flap.html

Quote:
Busted: The Churchill Flap
by Katie Connolly | February 20, 2009 7:00 PM EST

Has America's even- tempered new president already ruffled feathers in the land that spawned Borat and Benny Hill? That's certainly how the spiky British press responded after the White House sent back to the British Embassy a bust of Sir Winston Churchill that had occupied a cherished spot in President Bush's Oval Office. Intended as a symbol of transatlantic solidarity, the bust was a loaner from former British prime minister Tony Blair following the September 11 attacks. A bust of Abraham Lincoln—Obama's historical hero—now sits in its place. A White House spokesperson says the Churchill bust was removed before Obama's inauguration as part of the usual changeover operations, adding that every president puts his own stamp on the Oval Office.

But the British press, as is its wont, smells a snub. The Telegraph speculated that British diplomats' pulse rates would soar, while The Times of London wondered if a shadow had been cast over the special U.S.–U.K. relationship. A spokesperson for the British embassy, though, threw cold tea on the notion, pointing out British politician David Miliband was the first foreign minister to meet with U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

Maybe it's no surprise that Obama wouldn't want Churchill watching over his shoulder. After all, it was Churchill who, in 1952, ordered a crackdown on the Mau Mau rebellion against British colonial rule in Kenya, Obama's ancestral homeland. Obama's grandfather, Hussein Onyango Obama, was labeled a subversive during the uprising and spent months in detention.

Churchill expert Steven Hayward of the American Enterprise Institute thinks the average Briton will be unfazed by the bust's return, saying that folks across the pond have always been puzzled by American fondness for Churchill. Richard Langworth of the Churchill Center has offered another unidentified piece of Churchilliana that may pique Obama's interest but has yet to receive a response from the White House. For now, the president will have to content himself with gazing at the holograph copy of the Gettysburg Address in the guest bedroom.
Ceili
 
  5  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2011 10:26 pm
http://www.examiner.com/progressive-in-san-francisco/obama-is-the-seventh-president-with-a-foreign-born-parent
Quote:
Herbert Hoover had a Canadian-born mother. Woodrow Wilson's mother was English. Chester Arthur and James Buchanan both had Irish fathers. Thomas Jefferson's mother was born in England, and Andrew Jackson's parents were both born in Ireland.

Along with McCain, presidential contender Mitt Romney's father was born in Mexico, and Bill Richardson's parents were both foreign-born, his father from Nicaragua and his mother from Mexico.



"Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free..."
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  7  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2011 10:52 pm
Typical birther idiocy . . . Article Two, Section One, reads, in part:

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

It doesn't say a goddamned thing about the parents of the prospective candidate. Birthers are just racists who are dishonest about it.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2011 11:03 pm
@smokey888x2,
What would our founding fathers thought of a statue of a British head of state occupying a place of honor in the president's office?
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2011 11:10 pm
Another birther gets smacked down.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sat 31 Dec, 2011 11:53 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
What would our founding fathers thought of a statue of a British head of state occupying a place of honor in the president's office?


Well this British head of state had a mother who was an American and who was given an Honorary US citizenship by Congress.

I am fairly sure that the founding fathers that later become Federals at least would had have no problem with it at all.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 06:32 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

What would our founding fathers thought of a statue of a British head of state occupying a place of honor in the president's office?



Churchill was never the British head of state. He was the prime minister, the head of state is the queen.
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 07:06 am
@Butrflynet,
I can understand that a new president wants his things around him, but I find it very impolite to say it politely to return a gift to the giver.
You put an unwanted gift some place where you don´t have to look at it. There must be any amount of places in the White House to hide things.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 07:38 am
@saab,
We were a little bit miffed, but compared to his predecessor he's so much better. No British service personnel died as a result of Churchill's bust being returned.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 11:00 am
@smokey888x2,
Maybe the issue isn't the fact that Churchill's bust was taken away. Maybe they are upset with whose bust Obama used to replace it.
ehBeth
 
  4  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 11:03 am
@saab,
It was apparently on loan. It had to go back at some point.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 11:10 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Maybe the issue isn't the fact that Churchill's bust was taken away. Maybe they are upset with whose bust Obama used to replace it.



I don't quite know who you mean when you say 'they are upset,' but I can assure you we're not upset over this side of the pond. Lincoln is held in quite high regard, for a start most people have heard of him, he's up there with FDR in my book.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 11:14 am
@izzythepush,
The "they" in "they are upset" are the birthers. It seems to me that some of them are still a little upset about the War of Northern Aggression.

I keep forgetting that not everyone here is in the middle of the current political scuffles here in the US. The birthers are generally far right Americans and represent much of our racist fringe. The first comment was a poke at their obsession with the founding fathers, and the second comment was a poke at the small neo-Confederate movement that keeps popping up in the far right.
0 Replies
 
Lustig Andrei
 
  3  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 11:36 am
@saab,
It is my understanding, Saab, that the Churchill bust was a loan from the British Embassy, not a gift.
saab
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 11:59 am
@Lustig Andrei,
Why make a big thing out of it - when it was given back??
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 12:05 pm
@saab,
Quote:
Why make a big thing out of it - when it was given back??


Because the Obama haters led by the Fox network love to find things to blow up that might paint him in a bad light.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  2  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 02:29 pm
@saab,
saab wrote:

I can understand that a new president wants his things around him, but I find it very impolite to say it politely to return a gift to the giver.
You put an unwanted gift some place where you don´t have to look at it. There must be any amount of places in the White House to hide things.


It wasn't a gift. It was a loan, a loan that was renewed until 2009. The British offered to extend the renewal for the Obama administration and they declined. The bust was then returned to England.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Sun 1 Jan, 2012 02:53 pm
@saab,
saab wrote:
There must be any amount of places in the White House to hide things.


The White House is a surprisingly small building.

I'm not sure how it is in the U.S., but in Canada we (tax payers) are spending ridiculous amounts of money to store the gifts that are given to Prime Ministers that they can't keep (let alone the ones that have been accepted).

There's no room for all of the ridiculous gifts that leaders exchange, let alone what the public sends in.
0 Replies
 
 

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