the "dear leader" is gone: North Korean leader Kim Jong-il dead

@Lustig Andrei,

Lustig Andrei wrote:

I think you nailed it, fbaezer. David has no actual political principles
beyond might makes right and, as you said, us against them.

That is disingenuous; u r being false, Andy.
By NOW, u know me better than that.
From all our posting, over YEARS, u know damn well
that my political principles are anti-authoritarianism and anti-collectivism,
in favor of personal liberty from intrusion of government,
support of laissez faire capitalism, Individualism and hedonism.
I have said so over n OVER n OVER!

Lustig Andrei wrote:

Communist and Commie are just words to him;
he has no more understanding of the principles of the ideology
than a cat does of the daily newspaper.

What a baseless insult!
(Do your relatives ofen spit in your face, Andy,
and kick u in the groin upon meeting u during holidays or birthday celebrations,
in recognition of your support of the communism from which thay fled??)

Lustig Andrei wrote:

Nor of Fascism, Nazziism or even Capitalism.
(And I often get the feeling that he has no real undertsanding of
the underlying principles that govern the U.S. Constitution either.)

I LOVED the Constitutional Law course that I took in law school;
loved arguing its principles; got superb grades in it.
Tell the Professor that he was mistaken.

Lustig Andrei wrote:

It's all about America, right or wrong.

Frankly, that kind of ignorance and attitude disgusts me.

U misrepresent, and distort my positions on the subjects, into things that thay have never been
before u denounce me for the allegations that u falsely attribute to me.
Your chosen strategy of debate is to integrate mendacity into your bloviations against me.

U r not a fair, nor honest man.

Hay, lemme see your green card, Andy.

David

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@Ragman,

Kim some f'ing thing is dead who was the son and who the father.
Noone gives a crap
The soon to be seen son of the above fools is
Kim il il jong il

will take control and conquer america the running dog imperialist state.

check You tube. Kim il jong's ' secret song'
'I did it my way'

which sounds terrible in korean. wear it.

1 Reply

@Hjarloprillar,

I live in SK, so I give a crap to the extent that I'd like to know the name of the current loonie with his finger on the button that could send the bombs and troops my way.

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@FBM,

Me too, but I'm going to come right out and admit the name alone wouldn't give me a lot of information.

1 Reply

@roger,

Well, I admit that it wouldn't do much to help me dodge the incoming missiles or whatnot. But it feels better if you can end "Fack you, _____" with someone's name, eh?

1 Reply

@FBM,

True and true. Of course, what I was getting at was that knowing the new leadership by name wouldn't be of much help to me in trying to analyze the situation. It might very well be helpful to you.

Get right down to it, a good analysis probably wouldn't be of much practical benefit, either.

1 Reply

@roger,

If it's going to be business as usual up there, there's no such thing as a good analysis, anyway. Not in the sense that it could help you predict what their next move is going to be. The only thing predictable about them is their unpredictability.

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@FBM,

FBM

My apology for acting an ass. Of course those in the south are very sensitive to what lunatic is in power in pyongyang.

As a geopolitician and historian [are they seperate?]
I do not think N Korea will ever adventure and risk survival by attacking.
It knows that if S Korea was in danger of being destroyed.. US would carpark Pyongyang [a large flat sheet of bitumen]

As an aussie. im well away from the lunacy of post stalinist stalinism.
Yet the bleed trough affects all
BTW . I had a fling with a girl from Pusan. [this is between marriages]
She said i should shut up lol. a wise woman.

1 Reply

@Hjarloprillar,

Oh, I didn't think you were being an ass. Just expressing what the world looks like from where you are. That's all anyone can do, I think.

And, yes, I do think that Pyongyang has enough sense to know that full-on aggression = suicide for the regime. People here are worried about the possibility that someone on the way out with nothing to lose may briefly wind up with a finger on the button, so to speak. Honestly, I think it will be business as usual for a while yet. I'm on the fringes of the survival radius of a nuclear blast on/over the Blue House (Korean version of the White House), so I'm hoping the wheel doesn't fall off the NK wagon just yet...

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@FBM,

You keep safe mate, I can't think of a more unsettling place to be. Lets hope if nothing else, there's stability.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Thanks, izzy. It is interesting, in its own way. One reason I stay here is that I'd love to be able to travel freely in the North some day after reunification. It'd be like stepping back in time about 50 years.

1 Reply

@FBM,

We all fervently hope no wheels fall off.....unless that leads to a new and much better regime.

Love to hear more from you about S Korea and how YOYNsee the world.a

1 Reply

@FBM,

I wish u a lot of good luck.

Have u considered the possibility
that it might be SAFER
to await re-unification elsewhere, beyond the reach of the communists??

David

1 Reply

@dlowan,

Well, I've been over here since 1996. I guess I'm absorbing the general SK attitude towards the conflict with the North. That is, it's just a part of everyday life, not something that you let dominate your thoughts. There's nothing the average person can do about it, anyway.

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@OmSigDAVID,

Yeah, I've considered that, but I want to be among the first to cross over the DMZ when/if that day finally comes. Y'know, before it gets overcrowded, paved over and wired up like the South. I've been into photography for a few years, and I want some shots of the way people live in the outlying provinces. That way of life will disappear quickly after reunification. Of course, that way of life includes a lot of hunger and deprivation, so that will be a good thing overall, but a lot of culture will disappear with it. It would be nice to be able to document some of it first.

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@msolga,

msolga wrote:

George, my comment was more about another poster's apparent inability to have any empathy at all for the victims of dictators whose particular ideologies he supports ..... apparently it's OK to cause mass civilian suffering, deaths & human rights abuses if a particular dictator or regime is of the "right" variety.
I find such an attitude incomprehensible.

However, if we are going to compare which "side" has caused the most suffering to humankind during fairly recent history, I would argue that the powerful "puppet masters" have much to answer for, too..... I mean those powerful countries whose influence (say nothing of the arms they supply) have allowed the likes of Kim Jong-il to hold power through their continued support & influence. How long could a relatively small fry regime like North Korea's last without Chinese government support?

Would "the rivers of blood" have occurred in Indonesia without outside intervention & support of Suharto? How long would Burma's repressive military junta, which has caused untold misery to that county's citizens, have lasted in isolation, without powerful Chinese government support?

And while we're talking of civilian casualties ... we should also take into account direct military interventions into countries like Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan & the horrendous toll on civilians in those countries, by far more powerful countries with their own agendas .....

I think it's reasonable that their contributions are factored into the equation, too, when talking about human casualties. It is not just extreme left or right dictatorships alone which hold responsibility.

I think you contradict yourself here. Which nations were the "puppet masters" who should have intervened to stop the "rivers of blood" in Indonesia following the fall of Sukarno???? I take it you mean the United States. If so how do you rationalize your criticism of our removal of Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq? He started a bloody 11 year war with Iran that killed far more people than the massacres in Indonesia under Suharto and general Moerdani. Indeed Saddam executed or massacred upwards of three hundred thousand of his own people during the same period, and posed continuing threats to his neighbors and his own people.

North Korea is credited with killing millions of its own people through mass starvation or harsh imprisionment. The regime was brought into power by the former Soviet Union. It's attempt to expand into control and oppression of South Korea was stopped at great human cost by the United States and many allies: was this war and the attendant human suffering justifiable? Following the fall of the Soviet Union China provided trade and some economic assistance, but was at best a passive supporter of the regime - apparently believing it was more of a threat to us than to them. Should North Korea's other neighbors, Japan and South Korea have intervened to remove the regime in your view? By not doing so did they become "puppet masters" too?? Is the United States at fault for not intervening against a regime in North Korea that has killed far more of its people than did Suharto in Indonesia?

How do you make these judgments?

Apparently you find all human suffering "unjustifiable" irrespective of the apparent motives of those involved. That surely is your right, however, don't ask serious people to believe it makes sense either morally or realistically.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

No, I don't think I've contradicted myself in the case of Suharto's military purges & take-over in Indonesia, George. I was referring to powerful outside interference & support before & during the shocking events that occurred, rather than intervention once the mass slaughters had begun ... in any case, why would puppet masters, without whose covert support Suharto might not have acted to take power, intervene?

Quote:

Apparently you find all human suffering "unjustifiable" irrespective of the apparent motives of those involved. That surely is your right, however, don't ask serious people to believe it makes sense either morally or realistically.

Well the "motives" (either by "puppet masters'" behind-the-scenes support, or direct military intervention, or support of dictators ) are generally a grab for power, despite whatever justifications might be given. (like weapons of mass destruction, for example)

So yes, of course I find the deaths, suffering & hardship of ordinary people affected by such events unjustifiable. What did the ordinary people of Burma, North Korea, Afghanistan, Bali & Java in Indonesia, Chile, Ukraine, to name just a few, have to do with the grand plans of the great & powerful?

Perhaps more "serious people" could justify the unnecessary the deaths & suffering of so many (who were often poor & powerless in their own countries) , on "moral or realistic" grounds?

1 Reply

@msolga,

I have no problem with my posts being voted down, but .....
I would be very interested in the counter-view from the thumbs downer/s as well.
Makes for a much more interesting discussion that way! Wink

-

1 Reply

@msolga,

'As' a geopolitician [and scientist] emotions must play no part .. only what is.
Let us be honest . A little brother to US. One that fought in Korea and Malaysia That lost many good men in Vietnam for no reason but to placate America. Australia is a brown nosed nation To the power of US and its nuclear powered carrier battle groups.That rule the seas and keep our island nation safe. A fall back position if all goes to hell in continental US.
Read up on history of S Korea and you see that a hasty treaty at end of ww2 defined boarders of that natiion. Yet it became a force in the world , industrially and millitary.
Indonesia was left flapping in wind. Thus its hectic rise to nationhood.
Its fault was that it was not next to a communist state. And had no interest to the 'superpowers.'
Yet it made its way... And is now a proud nation with a voice.
Unlike such disasters as somalia Or hell holes like burma .

Indonesia is vital to the geopolitical thinking of australia.
We are joined at the hip by demographics and geology.

my small 2 cents
[microsynopsis]
prill

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@Hjarloprillar,

Hjarloprillar wrote:

'As' a geopolitician [and scientist] emotions must play no part .. only what is.
Let us be honest .

As a "geopolitician" when is your geoelection ??
On what party r u running????
For WHICH office r u a candidate??????
Do u kiss babies??

David

1 Reply

the "dear leader" is gone: North Korean leader Kim Jong-il dead

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