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Study finds school admits more blacks and Hispanics than whites and Asians with same or better crede

 
 
Reply Sat 17 Sep, 2011 06:46 am
video
http://video.foxnews.com/v/1164086504001/wisconsin-law-school-discriminates-against-whites/?playlist_id=86923
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Type: Discussion • Score: 4 • Views: 5,158 • Replies: 26

 
raprap
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Sep, 2011 09:00 am
@Pamela Rosa,
Consider that the source is Orella and Faux News. Hardly 'Fair and Balanced'

Rap
MMarciano
 
  3  
Reply Sat 17 Sep, 2011 06:19 pm
@raprap,
My thoughts as well. Once I saw Fox in the link I knew better then to even click on it.
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 12:59 am
@MMarciano,
MMarciano wrote:

My thoughts as well. Once I saw Fox in the link I knew better then to even click on it.

So, then, your most trenchant argument is "I don't hear you. I don't hear you. I don't hear you." The substance of your response seems to be, "I won't listen to anything you say." I have news for you - that doesn't make you the winner. The winner is someone whose ideas prevail in a fair competition with the other person's ideas.
MMarciano
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 08:05 am
@Brandon9000,
Saying Fox presents varied opinions is like saying an ice-cream stand that only sells vanilla has variety because it has 4 different kinds of vanilla. I've watched enough 'fair and balanced' news over the years, and Fox anchors just make things up as they go along. I happen to recognise whats real from bull-**** and after reading some of your dribble I’d never expect you to comprehend what I’m saying.
raprap
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 08:09 am
@MMarciano,
MMarciano wrote:
an ice-cream stand that only sells vanilla has variety because it has 4 different kinds of vanilla


I like that, good analogy.

Rap
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 08:35 am
@MMarciano,
MMarciano wrote:

Saying Fox presents varied opinions is like saying an ice-cream stand that only sells vanilla has variety because it has 4 different kinds of vanilla. I've watched enough 'fair and balanced' news over the years, and Fox anchors just make things up as they go along. I happen to recognise whats real from bull-**** and after reading some of your dribble I’d never expect you to comprehend what I’m saying.

Sorry, you cannot claim to have prevailed by the expedient of saying, "You're a moron and I won't listen to what you say." A person who is dead wrong can also claim to have prevailed by refusing to debate. I have no idea in this particular case, who is right and who is wrong. I'm not really getting involved at that level, but refusing to even listen to opposing beliefs does not constitute refuting the ideas.
0 Replies
 
raprap
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 08:41 am
@MMarciano,


Funny
Rap
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  0  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 09:16 am
@Pamela Rosa,
What a load of nonsense when you read the actual study..

Whites were 67% of applicants but 82% of admissions.

And somehow whites were discriminated against?
Pamela Rosa
 
  0  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 11:07 am
@parados,
Quote:
New Studies Show Severe Racial Discrimination at University of Wisconsin
Tuesday, 13 September 2011
(Madison, WI) Two studies released today by the Center for Equal Opportunity reveal severe discrimination based on race and ethnicity in undergraduate and law school admissions at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, with African Americans and Latinos given preference over whites and Asians.

The studies are based on data supplied by the schools themselves, some of which the university had refused to turn over until a lawsuit was filed by CEO and successfully taken all the way to the state supreme court. The studies were prepared by Dr. Althea Nagai, a research fellow at CEO, and can be viewed on the organization’s website, www.ceousa.org.

CEO president Roger Clegg will answer questions about the studies when they are formally released at a press conference today at 11:00 a.m. at the DoubleTree hotel in Madison—525 W. Johnson St.

The odds ratio favoring African Americans and Hispanics over whites was 576-to-1 and 504-to-1, respectively, using the SAT and class rank while controlling for other factors. Thus, the median composite SAT score for black admittees was 150 points lower than for whites and Asians, and the Latino median SAT score was 100 points lower. Using the ACT, the odds ratios climbed to 1330-to-1 and 1494-to-1, respectively, for African Americans and Hispanics over whites.

For law school admissions, the racial discrimination found was also severe, with the weight given to ethnicity much greater than given to, for example, Wisconsin residency. Thus, an out-of-state black applicant with grades and LSAT scores at the median for that group would have had a 7 out 10 chance of admission and an out-of-state Hispanic a 1 out of 3 chance—but an in-state Asian with those grades and scores had a 1 out of 6 chance and an in-state white only a 1 out of 10 chance.

CEO chairman Linda Chavez noted: “This is the most severe undergraduate admissions discrimination that CEO has ever found in the dozens of studies it has published over the last 15 years.” Chavez also noted: “The studies show that literally hundreds of students applying as undergrads or to the law school are rejected in favor of students with lower test scores and grades, and the reason is that they have the wrong skin color or their parents came from the wrong countries.”

Roger Clegg added: “The latest census figures have dramatically underscored that America is increasingly multiethnic and multiracial. In such country, is simply untenable for our institutions—including public universities—to engage in politically correct but divisive and unfair discrimination.”

The Center for Equal Opportunity recently joined an amicus brief challenging the use of racial preferences at the University of Texas, in a case for which review by the U.S. Supreme Court will be sought this week.

http://www.ceousa.org/content/view/929/119/
Pamela Rosa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 11:45 am
@parados,
Quote:
Conservatives allege anti-white bias at University of Wisconsin Law School
The National Law Journal
September 13, 2011

The University of Wisconsin Law School admitted a much higher proportion of blacks than whites and Asians with the same or higher academic credentials in 2005 and 2006, according to a study by the Center for Equal Opportunity, a conservative think tank based in Virginia that focuses on race and ethnicity.

The center analyzed Wisconsin's law school admission data from 2005 and 2006, as well as undergraduate admissions data from 2007 and 2008.

"The studies show that literally hundreds of students applying as undergrads or to the law school are rejected in favor of students with lower test scores and grades, and the reason is that they have the wrong skin color or their parents came from the wrong countries," said center chairwoman Linda Chavez.

Margaret Raymond, the law school's dean, wrote in a letter to students that race is one of many factors that admissions officials consider, and that the school benefits from a diverse student body.

"For the classroom experience at UW to reflect the range of knowledge, experiences, attitudes and aspirations of the world at large, it is necessary to look at everything about a candidate, ranging from veteran status to foreign travel experience to volunteer activities, and everything in between," she wrote. "We do take into account race and ethnicity, and the life experiences those characteristics may denote."

The two reports were released during the same week that affirmative action opponents were expected to ask the U.S. Supreme Court to hear a challenge to the constitutionality of the University of Texas' affirmative action admissions policy. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the 5th Circuit in June declined to rehear that case after upholding the policy in January.

Fisher v. the University of Texas is the first federal case challenging university affirmative action policies since U.S. Supreme Court upheld the University of Michigan's race-conscious admissions process in Grutter v. Bollinger in 2003. In Grutter, the court ruled that race could be considered during the admissions process as long as it is one of many factors. The center has joined an amicus brief challenging the Texas admissions process.

Law school admissions have been a focus for the center for years; it has alleged that admissions officers show preference for blacks and Hispanics at the University of Arizona James E. Rogers College of Law; Arizona State Sandra Day O'Connor College of Law; the University of Nebraska College of Law; The University of Virginia School of Law; and the College of William and Mary Marshall-Wythe School of Law.

This alleged admissions preference at law schools has done little to counteract the overall lack of diversity in the legal profession. Blacks, Asians and Hispanics account for about 12% of attorneys, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. Legal organizations have been pushing hard for increased diversity on law school campuses for more than a decade in the hope that a larger pool of minority students would help to correct the profession's racial imbalance.

According to the University of Wisconsin Law School's Web site, it has been a leader in the diversity movement.

"The best evidence of the UW Law School's commitment to diversity comes from the more than one thousand students of color who have graduated from the Law School — a proud group of prominent alumni who are increasingly active in their service to the Law School and its students," it reads. "Students of color comprise more than 25 percent of our student body."

Raymond wrote that "we are confident that our admissions practices continue to serve the goal of creating a well-rounded education that meets the needs of our students and the profession."

The center's analysis was based on data provided by the University of Wisconsin. The university initially denied the center's request for the data, citing student privacy concerns, but the Wisconsin Supreme Court in 2002 ordered the data released.

The center collected data on each individual's admission and matriculation status, plus his or her race, sex, LSAT scores and grade point averages. The center considered whether prospective students lived in or out-of-state during the 2005 and 2006 application cycles.

It concluded that in 2006, the law school admitted 43% of black applicants, 39% of Hispanic applicants, 18% of Asian applicants and 24% of white applicants. That same year, black and Hispanic applicants had lower median LSAT scores and GPAs than did white applicants, the report said.

"For law school admissions, the racial discrimination found was also severe, with the weight given to ethnicity much greater than given to, for example, Wisconsin residency," the center said in a formal statement. "Thus, an out-of-state black applicant with grades and LSAT scores at the median for that group would have had a 7 out 10 chance of admission and an out-of-state Hispanic a 1 out of 3 chance — but an in-state Asian with those grades and scores had a 1 out of 6 chance and an in-state white only a 1 out of 10 chance."
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202514314463&rss=nlj&slreturn=1&hbxlogin=1
jcboy
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 12:01 pm
@MMarciano,
Don't waste your time with numbnuts Brandon, he's as right wing nut-cracker as they come lol.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 02:48 pm
@Pamela Rosa,
I didn't dispute that the studies happened. I disputed their findings as being complete horse ****.

When 67% of applicants are white and 82% of those admitted are white, one can hardly argue that whites are being discriminated against.

The study is nothing more than a misuse of statistics. It's garbage.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 02:53 pm
@Pamela Rosa,
Quote:
It concluded that in 2006, the law school admitted 43% of black applicants, 39% of Hispanic applicants, 18% of Asian applicants and 24% of white applicants. That same year, black and Hispanic applicants had lower median LSAT scores and GPAs than did white applicants, the report said.

A rather interesting selective use of statistics. Why only use the one year since the study covered 2 years? Why ignore the fact that fewer blacks applied in that year?

Using the median score is intellectually dishonest since no one with the median score or lower was accepted in any group. Perhaps you don't know what "median" means but I do. It's bullshit to use the median score as a basis for who got in when NO ONE with that score was admitted.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 03:02 pm
@parados,
I agree that the median scores of applicants is not a particularly good measure of the merits of those who were selected. The median scores of those selected would have been much better.

As you undoubtedly know all statistical measures are approximations of the actual data. There is nothing intrinsically defective about any measure of central tendency .. median, mean or mode.

That said, the very wide disparities in the percent of each category that was selected is itself a very strong indicator that systematic factors other than test scores were operating.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 03:04 pm
@parados,
Just to give you an idea of how ridiculous this study is and was..

The study states...
Quote:
The mean score for LSAT test takers is
150. An LSAT score of 160 is at the 84th percentile of all test takers, while a score of 140
is at the 36th percentile.


But then it no longer uses the mean score when it calculates who got in. Why?

Because the MEAN score would be different than the median score. No one with the median score got into the law school so it would be meaningless in calculating who got in. The median score is for those 50% of lower. Since the number of applicants that go in are less than 50% they were ALL well above the 50% or higher.
Comparing those that didn't get in is NOT a comparison of who did get in.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  0  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 03:07 pm
@georgeob1,
And the study doesn't make it clear if they are looking at those accepted or those that actually started law school.
Many of those accepted could have applied at several schools and gone elsewhere. We don't know if those are counted or not.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 03:13 pm
@parados,
All true, but you are still ignoring the obvious evidence.
parados
 
  0  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 03:22 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

All true, but you are still ignoring the obvious evidence.

What evidence? That UW is racist?
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Sep, 2011 03:24 pm
@parados,
That's a conclusion, not evidence. If you don't want to see it, there is no utility in my pointing it out a second time.
 

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