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Did Waterboarding lead to the death of Osama?

 
 
Reply Mon 2 May, 2011 06:17 pm
I was watching O'Reilly and Rep. Peter King, NY, stated that info obtained from waterboarding led to the killing of Bin Laden. Now what if this is true? How do you on the left react to this if it is true? Would that make our President a war criminal by acting on info obtained through torture?
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Type: Question • Score: 19 • Views: 14,558 • Replies: 1,027

 
View best answer, chosen by Renaldo Dubois
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 May, 2011 06:58 pm
@Renaldo Dubois,
Renaldo,

Why do you hate America?
Renaldo Dubois
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 May, 2011 07:26 pm
@maxdancona,
Because your sister pees her pants.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  8  
Reply Mon 2 May, 2011 07:48 pm
@Renaldo Dubois,
Renaldo Dubois wrote:

I was watching O'Reilly and Rep. Peter King, NY, stated that info obtained from waterboarding led to the killing of Bin Laden. Now what if this is true? How do you on the left react to this if it is true? Would that make our President a war criminal by acting on info obtained through torture?



3 detainees were waterboarded. The last one was waterboarded in 2003.

The intel to get Bin Laden was obtained within the last 5 years.

I'll do the math for those that have problems with it. (I won't name any names.)

2011 - 2003 = 8
8 is larger than 5.

If Bush didn't lie to congress and the American people then no info obtained from waterboarding resulted in Bin Laden's death.
failures art
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 May, 2011 08:26 pm
@parados,
I thought the unnamed detainee gave intel four (not five) years ago. Either way, the math sinks RD's accusation...

...unless the Bush admin lied under oath...

A
R
T
PUNKEY
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 06:05 am
Was it waterboarding?

No - it was his cell phone.

djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 06:12 am
@PUNKEY,
cell phone bomb?

i heard he was shot
0 Replies
 
Renaldo Dubois
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 07:07 am
@failures art,
It's not an "accusation". I am quoting Rep. Peter King NY. I encourage you to take a reading comprehension class. You might look smarter.

Looks like the info did come from Gitmo. You know, the place Bush used and the place BO promised to shut down. Makes the morons who wanted Gitmo shut down look kinda stupid.
Renaldo Dubois
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 07:36 am
Looks like another victim of lefty lies is vindicated.

http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/05/02/cheney-says-enhanced-interrogation-probably-led-ubl-death
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 07:50 am
Cheney said
Quote:
"I would assume that the enhanced interrogation program that we put in place produced some of the results that led to bin Laden's ultimate capture," Cheney said of the George


In other words, he doesn't know jackshit about the circumstances that produced the information. He's making assumptions. He was among the most vociferous that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction, when he presumably would have had accurate information. How accurate was he then? Now, when he's making assumptions in the absence of information, his credibility level is low enough the needle hardly blips off zero..

People who have actually done interrogations say that "enhanced interrogation techniques", the codewords for torture will say anything, will admit to anything,just to get it to stop. And the information gained is not reliable. If, on the other hand, you take more time and establish a relationship with the one you are questioning, what you get proves out more and is far more extensive. Given the timeframe, it's far more probably that that's where the info came from.



Renaldo Dubois
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 08:55 am
@MontereyJack,
And a bunch of democrats along with President Clinton believed Saddam had WMDs. That's another topic.

The info is coming out all over the place that enhanced interrogations led to Osama's death. I'm gonna love watching you guys squirm and dance around this.
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 09:04 am
@Renaldo Dubois,
They stopped water boarding in 2003 and all harsh techniques in 2005. The interrogation which led to information regarding Bin Laden was obtained in interrogations 2005-2006.

see here
Renaldo Dubois
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 09:07 am
@revelette,
The initial info came from Sheik Khalid Mohammed, the mastermind of 9/11. He was waterboarded. The facts are coming out. The left will do all they can to lie when the full facts are known. This upsets their world like nothing else.

Those of you on the left who jump to conclusions based on propaganda from you lying left wing sites are gonna look pretty stupid. Keep telling us about the time line. If I were a lefty I'd keep my mouth shut until all the facts are out. Your handlers are gonna lie all day long about this.

shttp://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/05/02/bush-era-interrogations-provided-key-details-bin-ladens-location/
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 09:10 am
@Renaldo Dubois,
Facts according to fox news in not facts.

The courier was a protegee of heik Khalid Mohammed. There have been no reports that the water boarding of Mohammed led to that information, just a lot of conjecture by Cheney and types such as yourself.
Renaldo Dubois
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 09:12 am
@revelette,
Prove it.
Renaldo Dubois
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 09:13 am
@revelette,
And do you admit you are wrong about your dates? If I were you, I'd stop right now. Better to look ignorant than a fool.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 09:21 am
@Renaldo Dubois,
The info came from Gitmo where waterboarding was NEVER USED.

Don't you look stupid now?
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 09:26 am
@Renaldo Dubois,
You are the one making the claims with absolutely no reason to do so. The only mention of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed so was an article from McClatchy of which I left a link here where it was reported that a courier who was of particular interest was a protegee of Sheikh Mohammed. I haven't see any articles where it says Mohammed gave information during his interrogations which led to the death of Bin Laden. If there is, you should provide proof of such since you are the one making the claim.

From the leaked wikileaks Guantanamo assessment file given to McClatchy and other media organizations it says that the information
Quote:
appears to have come from al Libi during 2005 and 2006 interrogations. Al Libi was in CIA custody from shortly after his capture until he was transferred with 13 other "high-value detainees" to Guantanamo in September 2006.

source

Which was after water boarding was discontinued.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  4  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 09:26 am
@Renaldo Dubois,
No.

Long post on this from Andrew Sullivan with links, here is a chunk of it but not all of it:

Andrew Sullivan wrote:
Quote:
Prisoners in American custody told stories of a trusted courier. When the Americans ran the man’s pseudonym past two top-level detainees — the chief planner of the Sept. 11 attacks, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed; and Al Qaeda’s operational chief, Abu Faraj al-Libi — the men claimed never to have heard his name. That raised suspicions among interrogators that the two detainees were lying and that the courier probably was an important figure.


My italics. So in torturing these two men, interrogators got nothing of substance. In fact, it was only by assuming that these men were lying under torture that the investigation continued. It was subsequently, during normal interrogations that KSM gave us a central clue:

Quote:
Mohammed did not reveal the names while being subjected to the simulated drowning technique known as waterboarding, former officials said. He identified them many months later under standard interrogation, they said, leaving it once again up for debate as to whether the harsh technique was a valuable tool or an unnecessarily violent tactic.


To repeat: in the one instance we now clearly know about, the CIA is telling us that torture gave them lies. Which they were. Only when traditional inetrrogation was used did we get the actual names of the couriers. Marcy Wheeler looks at the current data set:

Quote:
We can conclude that either KSM shielded the courier’s identity entirely until close to 2007, or he told his interrogators that there was a courier who might be protecting bin Laden early in his detention but they were never able to force him to give the courier’s true name or his location, at least not until three or four years after the waterboarding of KSM ended. That’s either a sign of the rank incompetence of KSM’s interrogators (that is, that they missed the significance of a courier protecting OBL), or a sign he was able to withstand whatever treatment they used with him.


Follow up here. Jane Mayer's thoughts. Brian Beutler focuses on the flaws in the AP story torture apologists latched onto. Meanwhile, Rumsfeld himself has denied that torture played any role in finding bin Laden:

Quote:
“It is true that some information that came from normal interrogation approaches at Guantanamo did lead to information that was beneficial in this instance. But it was not harsh treatment and it was not waterboarding.”


What really broke the case? From the NYT:

Quote:
Operation Cannonball, a [2005] bureaucratic reshuffling ... placed more C.I.A. case officers on the ground in Pakistan and Afghanistan. With more agents in the field, the C.I.A. finally got the courier’s family name. With that, they turned to one of their greatest investigative tools — the National Security Agency began intercepting telephone calls and e-mail messages between the man’s family and anyone inside Pakistan. From there they got his full name. Last July, Pakistani agents working for the C.I.A. spotted him driving his vehicle near Peshawar.


Old-fashioned, painstaking, labor-intensive intelligence work. The American way. We never needed to stoop to bin Laden's standards to get bin Laden. We needed merely to follow our long-tested humane procedures.


Emphases (bold) mine, italics Sullivan's. Numerous links left out, go to original for links:

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/05/the-republican-spin.html
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 May, 2011 09:38 am
@sozobe,
I stand corrected, feel kind of stupid. 'So Khalid Shaikh Mohammed did give information which led to the eventual death of Bin Laden, just not under water boarding?

 

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