Proof that consciousness evolved from physical matter?

@north,

You said it. "Our evolution of thought.

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@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

You said it. "Our evolution of thought.

so whats your problem with this ?

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@north,

You seem to equate consciousness with human consciousness.

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@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

You seem to equate consciousness with human consciousness.

so what are saying ?

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@north,

That the studies conducted scientifically, which lead us to assume consciousness has evolved from physical matter via biological process, are studies made by consciousness.

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@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

That the studies conducted scientifically, which lead us to assume consciousness has evolved from physical matter via biological process, are studies made by consciousness.

so how can your opposition be any different to this study ?

since you yourself are consciousness and from biological matter

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@north,

I am not opposing it. I am trying to see it for what it is. Quantum physics, which is perhaps as close to "objectivity" as we can get in science, has recently started painting a picture of the world that is remarkably similar to what the people of ancient India came up with after studying consciousness.

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@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

I am not opposing it. I am trying to see it for what it is. Quantum physics, which is perhaps as close to "objectivity" as we can get in science, has recently started painting a picture of the world that is remarkably similar to what the people of ancient India came up with after studying consciousness.

therefore the depth of thought has come to the same conclusion as the investigation into energy and matter

I find this no surprise really

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@north,

No. It's the other way around, as I see it. But regardless of this, I think it is obvious that consciousness is something far more fundamental to reality than physical matter.

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@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

No. It's the other way around, as I see it. But regardless of this, I think it is obvious that consciousness is something far more fundamental to reality than physical matter.

why , though ?

what makes you think this ?

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@north,

What made matter "suddenly form lifeforms"?
Why do these lifeforms evolve and why do they evolve towards becoming increasingly aware as entities?
These are questions that remain unanswered by materialistic sciences, and even though there are many theories of what might have happened, they are all as speculative as the old notions of god.
But if we turn it around the problem is eliminated. We see that the answer is consciousness. Consciousness is evolving, and that is what is making physical evolution happen. That is how we have come to be as we are; self aware beings with physical bodies. A synergy of all aspects of reality.

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@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

What made matter "suddenly form lifeforms"?

it wasn't " sudden "

it took an enormus amount of moments or movements ( time if you perfer )

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Why do these lifeforms evolve and why do they evolve towards becoming increasingly aware as entities?

thats the Nature of movement , some life forms die out , some regress ,some stay the same and some move ahead

we Humans move ahead

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These are questions that remain unanswered by materialistic sciences, and even though there are many theories of what might have happened, they are all as speculative as the old notions of god.

perhaps but god is no answer either

since god is regressive

Quote:

But if we turn it around the problem is eliminated. We see that the answer is consciousness. Consciousness is evolving, and that is what is making physical evolution happen. That is how we have come to be as we are; self aware beings with physical bodies. A synergy of all aspects of reality.

but is consciousness within algae

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@north,

It is in everything.

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@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

It is in everything.

then what is the essence of this consciousness ?

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@north,

Reality?

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@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

Reality?

yes

actually not so much consciousness as it is life

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@north,

Permit me some unverifiable speculations. Is it not possible that if it is the case that consciousness has no definite location, that it is in the nature of all things? Nature HAS consciousness (mine and yours reveals that right now) therefore it IS, in that sense, conscious.
The opposite thesis is much less acceptable (intuitive) to me, namely that Nature is dead/innert as far as consciousness is concerned. Perhaps it is acceptable to describe Nature as Unconscious since, when it applies to animal life "unconsciousnes" is a form, or level, of consciousness. Perhaps we should be keenly alert to a possible range of types and degrees of awareness.
Possibly we should realize that Algae does not have consciousness in anything like the sense that we have it, but given its membership in Nature it IS consciousness.
Again, algae is a form of LIFE as well. But then let's, for the purpose of our discussion, broaden our conception of life to include ALL things including rocks. Perhaps the very fact of the great dynamism/movement of a rock's atomic and sub-atomic levels-of-being is grounds for considering it--like all things--alive.
In that case biology addresses a particular subset of Life.

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@JLNobody,

Please consider the above, an episode of free associations or a stream of consciousness.

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@Cyracuz,

No. I was not trying to invent what was not. I was trying to illustrate what is by comparing it to what could have been.

Amit Goswami is a prime example of those who conflate meta-physics with physics and who operate in the popular domain where his ideas are not exposed to rigorous criticism. Physics is an empirical natural science. It is not a philosophy of Being. It is about what is, not about the fact that it is, and what that fact means. Quantum non-locality and the relativity of time are incidental. If the world had consisted of a lot of marbles the problem would not change very much.

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@JLNobody,

I was thinking about rocks yesterday, and I was thinking that there are no rocks anywhere but within conscious perception, and that what I refer to as my consciousness is as much an attribute of the rocks as of me. Upon observation of the rock there happens a whole lot of cognitive processes in my brain and perhaps not any detectable processes in the rock, which makes us think in terms of consciousness and it's focus (as something not conscious and outside of consciousness).

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Perhaps the very fact of the great dynamism/movement of a rock's atomic and sub-atomic levels-of-being is grounds for considering it--like all things--alive.

Perhaps. The notion has appeal to me. The brain and our senses do function in and percieve the quantum world. Perhaps brain is not needed for consciousness, as that phenomenon is non-local and inherent in everything. If we think of rocks as quantum states, we can think of a brain as other quantum states that have the ability to measure and store these quantum states that it then percieves as objects. This gives us a sense of contintuity, as we can inhabit a quantum state and use it as a vantage point for percieving the next.

(I am just trying to join in your excercise of free association)

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Proof that consciousness evolved from physical matter?

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