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The impending Government Shutdown

 
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2011 12:23 pm
@Advocate,
Quote:
The right should not be cherrypicking for elimination tiny expenditures for programs with which it doesn't agree.


Why not? Isn't that what both sides do? Fight to either eliminate or add expenditures for programs for which they disagree or agree?
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2011 12:25 pm
@CoastalRat,
CoastalRat wrote:

Quote:
The right should not be cherrypicking for elimination tiny expenditures for programs with which it doesn't agree.


Why not? Isn't that what both sides do? Fight to either eliminate or add expenditures for programs for which the disagree or agree?


Yes, but at what cost?

The 'rider,' as Soz pointed out, isn't limited to Federal funds. It's an ideological attack on a position they don't agree with, in a variety of ways not related to federal funding - which is supposedly what the bill is about, right? Yet the Republicans are willing to shut the government down and do tremendous economic damage to see it happen.

Hard to defend that.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2011 12:29 pm
It seems that the president is opposed to the Republican bill because it is only a one week extension. Obama wants the government funded through September.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2011 12:30 pm
@CoastalRat,
Quote:
Why not? Isn't that what both sides do? Fight to either eliminate or add expenditures for programs for which the disagree or agree?
Well, Obama was no piker, he added well over $100 Billion of his pet projects to the government accounts, while misleading the public into thinking the reason for the expenditure was to boost the economy. The GOP look small time going to the mattresses over paltry $360 million a year for PP.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2011 01:07 pm
Morning meetings have ended with no compromise.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2011 01:09 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Well, Obama was no piker, he added well over $100 Billion of his pet projects to the government accounts, while misleading the public into thinking the reason for the expenditure was to boost the economy. The GOP look small time going to the mattresses over paltry $360 million a year for PP.

Unless he was spending on pet projects overseas, his statements aren't misleading. $100 billion in domestic spending is $100 billion of stimulus whether he is spending it on what he wants or what the Republicans want.

The GOP is small time going after $360 million while ignoring the big ticket items in the budget, but the point is not the size of what they are going after, it is the motivation, the impact and the net benefit. In this case, it is clear the motivation is not debt reduction and they are apparently willing to do significant damage to push something with no real budget benefit. The impact of cutting PP is clear as well. It will fall on the very tail end of the economic spectrum, the place were we need the most help with planning parenthood. As to net benefit, cutting condoms and paying for babies is a pretty stupid way to try to get savings.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2011 01:14 pm
@engineer,
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/A_Politics/_Today_Stories_Teases/11139%20April%202011%20Filled-in.pdf

Do you want to know why Republicans are going to be blamed for this shutdown? This'll tell you exactly why:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/WashingtonPost/Content/Blogs/ezra-klein/201104/demoscompromisepoll.jpg?uuid=h_DBWmEoEeCsCzWPQfhC4Q

http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/WashingtonPost/Content/Blogs/ezra-klein/201104/republicansccompromise.jpg?uuid=nVBjhGEoEeCsCzWPQfhC4Q

They are going to get blamed because their goddamn base is actively cheering it on, and has been for months! This insistence that last-minute games by Boehner will somehow make Obama and the Dems responsible is completely without merit, and a really shallow way to view the situation.

Cycloptichorn
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2011 01:23 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Nate Silver has more on that (why the Republicans are likely to be blamed for the shutdown):

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/06/budget-politics-in-the-doldrums/

A quote:
Quote:
In particular, most voters are not expecting a shutdown, so if one were to occur, the political winds could go from being nearly still to gale-force in a hurry.


The "not expecting a shutdown" leads to this MSNBC story, which shows that 76% of the public (as of 4/11) expects that an agreement will be reached.

And a shutdown has real implications, it's not just "HA I'm strong and blocking you HA" posturing. Military people won't be paid, something like 3 million people will stop getting paychecks.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2011 02:01 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
Does anyone remember the last gov't shutdown? I think it was in '96. Didn't work out so well for the Republicans. Why do they think it's going to work better this time? Does anyone know?


Better flow of information, internet, internet/information age, public more aware of realities...

Why?
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2011 02:05 pm
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:

Quote:
Does anyone remember the last gov't shutdown? I think it was in '96. Didn't work out so well for the Republicans. Why do they think it's going to work better this time? Does anyone know?


Better flow of information, internet, internet/information age, public more aware of realities...

Why?


What 'flow of information,' Gunga? The Republicans have been cheerleading for a showdown for year or more, and the Dems haven't. Do you think that people somehow didn't notice this? Or that they aren't going to get pissed by the shutdown?

You're deluding yourself, as badly as you do on pretty much every other political topic here.

Cycloptichorn
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2011 02:14 pm
@gungasnake,
i'd say that the internet works against information in a lot of ways, way more partisan propaganda (from all sides)
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 09:31 am
Overnight discussions lead to 'progress' but no breakthrough. Dem leaders say that they have agreed to 38 billion in cuts and some policy riders, but the Republicans refuse to budge on the defunding of Planned Parenthood, and Obama and Reid refuse to sell women down the river to save a few meaningless bucks, so there is an impasse today.

Hard to see how a shutdown isn't inevitable, I don't think they can even vote in time by this time.

Cycloptichorn
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 10:12 am
@Cycloptichorn,
This morning, politicians are being unusually quiet. This may mean that a deal is in the works.
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 03:08 pm
@wandeljw,
I don't know about quiet. I'd not describe it that way.

A
R
T
dyslexia
 
  3  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 03:49 pm
@failures art,
just taking breaks to re-set camera angles, script editing; same as all-star wrestling.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 04:34 pm
This is interesting:

Quote:
Representative Michele Bachmann of Minnesota, the founder of the Tea Party caucus in the House and a likely 2012 presidential candidate, tweeted Friday afternoon: “I am ready for a big fight that will change the arc of history. The current fight in Washington is not that fight.”

In an article on Redstate, Ms. Bachmann concludes that “the current battle has devolved to an agenda that is almost too limited to warrant the kind of fighting that we’re now seeing in Washington.”

Likewise, Mike Huckabee, the former governor of Arkansas and a possible presidential candidate, said Friday afternoon in an interview that a shutdown would “hurt the Republicans, not the Democrats.”


http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/08/conservatives-urge-boehner-to-cut-a-budget-deal-and-move-on/
failures art
 
  2  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 04:46 pm
@sozobe,
Here's the reality: Even if it is not today, a compromise will be made.

Here's the game: Amongst Republicans there is a race to not be a part of the compromise.

To Bachmann, her political game is really simple: She's not going to ever vote on a compromise, and yet knows that a compromise is inevitable. Her tactic then is to let the other Republicans do the heavy lifting and deal with tea party fall-out.

Make no mistake, when the inevitable compromise comes, it will be by the smallest number possible by the GOP. The dems will vote to compromise (probably unanimously) after ceding so much territory, and the GOP will whine about it not being enough. Then the GOP will say the Dems weren't cooperative and gave nothing. It's a familiar story.

A
R
T
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 04:49 pm
@sozobe,
Hmm, Soz. My flip-flopping expectation is that there either will not be a shut-down or, if there is, it will be over by Monday. The parks may not even have to close.
Remember that this is all about the 2011 fiscal year ending in Oct. I think that all parties (the Dems, the Repubs and the Teaparty folks) will decide to punt and move on to the 2012 budget.
That should be amusing, as we will be in full-fledged electioneering by this time next year.
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 04:49 pm
@failures art,
I'm not sure about that race.

I think Republicans are very concerned that if there is a shutdown, they will be blamed (this is a valid concern).

So now they're trying to find a way to compromise and avoid the shutdown. Bachmann's approach is interesting. (Save political capital for bigger fights, play down this one as not that big of a deal.)
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 04:52 pm
@sozobe,
I am not Andrew Sullivan, I swear.

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/04/the-right-panics.html

(Beat him by a minute.)
 

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