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anti-war and freedom from religion

 
 
RexRed
 
Reply Mon 8 Nov, 2010 05:22 am
I try to be anti war, but, there are boundaries even for a pacifist wanna be like me. It seems there is a way of life that, generally, Americans try to protect. We seem to think we have freedoms in the US that do not exist quite the same way in other places. Is this worth protecting with life and limb? Is freedom the reason why we fight in wars? Can life as we know it exist without freedom?

How can peace exist under tyranny? Can the soul be liberated when enslaved by a master made of abstract social constrictions? Can liberty exist within the clerical rule? Can one be truly "free" if they are still yet bound by religious precepts and dictates?

I would speculate that for those of a society that require sanctuary outside of religion cannot be governed by a society that is ruled by clerics. A government must be secular in order to accommodate both the religions and the non pious. So it seems the entire issue that is before us regarding war still boils down to separation of church and state.

This separation due to the premise that true freedom cannot exist while being subject to religious rule.

Mainly for reasons that religions use holy books rather than science books to judge society. It seems like barbarism to go back to judging society based upon apparently erroneous books deemed divine by only the radically devout of today.

The radically devout show a wanton need for restraint in their judgments and their judgments seem outdated and unsound. Public stoning, females treated like animals, homosexuals persecuted and racist undertones.

Where governments that are devoid of religious books treat citizens as equals. Are we going to have two or three laws to govern the free? Nonsense. We have one law that is social and devoid of religion so that people can practice or freely abstain from whatever practice of religion is prescribed by the societies clerics and the highly devout.

Liberty must accommodate the non religious also, not only socially but ethically also.
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RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2010 01:28 pm
It is fair to say religions don't cause all wars but it is also fair to say that all wars are caused by ideas that resemble religions.
Thomas33
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2016 01:15 pm
@RexRed,
There is a possibility that freedom (assuming it exists) is incompatible with society; if by freedom one means self-autonomy, it greatly depends on co-operation (which in turn can be interpreted to be self-defeating, because wouldn't the whole point of freedom mean not having to deal with others?).

I myself just believe in reflection: to be rid of war, and violence and inequality, people simply have to reflect themselves elsewhere. In practice this can mean billions of things, one in particular being an interpretation of a movie or story.

Reality isn't freedom, therefore freedom as a political concept is perhaps entirely invalid, and then the concept of a political concept is redundant.
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AugustineBrother
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Aug, 2016 02:15 pm
@RexRed,
You are however the classic tyrant and that is why you hate to argue for freedom of CONSCIENCE.

This is how the UN stated it

On December 10, 1948 the General Assembly of the United Nations adopted and proclaimed the Universal Declaration of Human Rights...
....
Article 18:
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.
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AugustineBrother
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Aug, 2016 02:18 pm
@RexRed,
You argue for rights that didn't exist until religious people in the Founding of the USA established them !!!!

The early colonies pioneered (excuse the pun) religious toleration in the world !! It is a wonderful story told by William J Federer


THE ORIGINAL 13-A Documentary History of Religion in America's Original Thirteen States - "The whole power over the subject of religion is left exclusively to the State governments, to be acted upon according to their sense of justice and the State Constitutions," wrote Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story in his Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 1833. Who was Joseph Story? He was the founder of Harvard Law School and appointed to the Supreme Court by President James Madison - the same James Madison who introduced the First Amendment in the first session of Congress. To understand the progression of religious freedom in America, it is necessary to review the Constitutions of the original thirteen States, together with the Colonial Charters that preceded them, i.e.: VIRGINIA CHARTER OF KING JAMES I, 1606 "...propagating of Christian Religion to such People as yet live in Darkness..." DELAWARE CHARTER OF KING ADOLPHUS, 1626 "...further propagation of the Holy Gospel..." MASSACHUSETTS CONSTITUTION, 1780, Part 1, Article 3 "Every denomination of Christians...shall be equally under the protection of the law and no subordination of any one sect or denomination to another shall ever be established..." PENNSYLVANIA CONSTITUTION, 1968, Article 1, Section 3 "All men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own consciences..." NORTH CAROLINA CONSTITUTION, 1971, Article 11, Section 4 "Beneficent provision for the poor, the unfortunate, and the orphan is one of the first duties of a civilized and a Christian state..." Examining Charters, Constitutions, Court Decisions and Correspondence, this overview of history is intended as a study help for those interested in discovering the role religion played in America's original thirteen States. The process of how the Federal Courts used the 14th Amendment to remove religion from States' jurisdiction, most notably in the 1947 Everson v. Board of Education case, and subsequently evolved it into its present interpretation, is the subject of another book. (Paperback, 416 pages, illustrations)
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AugustineBrother
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Aug, 2016 02:21 pm
@RexRed,
Fair, it isn't even logical unless you define 'religion' to make it so, as tyrants and bigots have done for centuries. Here in the US it has always been considered wrong to subject anyone's political vote to the tests you want.

If I am against LGBT restrooms you have no right to ask why and then punish me in any way for that. You are a tyrrant and I will never convince you. BUt you fit the role perfectly.
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