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Sat 22 Nov, 2003 06:08 pm
yeah I think thats what J Edgar said as well.
dys- J Edgar was a nutcase.
We need to keep a watch on this. It is important though, not to "throw the baby out with the bathwater". We live in peculiar times, where there are terrorist cells and sympathizers all over the country, and one major and a few minor tragedies already, on our soil.
I hate the idea of the government watching innocent people, but they need to root out those who would destroy us!
problem is Phoenix, we didn't seem to care all that much when J Edgar was going after anyone (Martin Luther King for example) that he didn't like. Powerful men with power tools like to use them. I hardly feel secure with men like Aschroft as the head of the Dept of Justice protecting my rights.
Phoenix32890 wrote:dys- J Edgar was a nutcase.
We need to keep a watch on this. It is important though, not to "throw the baby out with the bathwater". We live in peculiar times, where there are terrorist cells and sympathizers all over the country, and one major and a few minor tragedies already, on our soil.
I hate the idea of the government watching innocent people, but they need to root out those who would destroy us!
Yes to all of that!
But...
...I sure would feel one hell of a lot better if people other than the people who are protecting us...
...were protecting us.
Phoenix32890 wrote:dys- J Edgar was a nutcase.
We need to keep a watch on this. It is important though, not to "throw the baby out with the bathwater". We live in peculiar times, where there are terrorist cells and sympathizers all over the country, and one major and a few minor tragedies already, on our soil.
I hate the idea of the government watching innocent people, but they need to root out those who would destroy us!
But, I really wonder how many "terrorist cells" there actually are, vs. how efficiently a frightened citizenry may be effectively controlled. What if the definition of "those who would destroy us," becomes "anyone who expresses dissent?"
Chronology of DPD Spy Files.
Phoenix -- You are certainly more trusting of this government than I am. The mere fact that they want to look for terrorists in a protest crowd tells me that they are not looking for terrorists, but for dissenters. Stop and think a minute -- how many terrorists are stupid enough to make themselves noticeable in any kind of crowd? Ashcroft and his boys had just as well comb through church congregations.
Of course, maybe they'll get around to that, too!
In the long history of protest movements, government and media have almost always denigrated protestors, even principled, orderly, ones. Any trick to keep their messages from being considered.
Phoenix32890 wrote:dys- J Edgar was a nutcase.
We need to keep a watch on this. It is important though, not to "throw the baby out with the bathwater". We live in peculiar times, where there are terrorist cells and sympathizers all over the country, and one major and a few minor tragedies already, on our soil.
I hate the idea of the government watching innocent people, but they need to root out those who would destroy us!
Where exactly are these cells and sympathisers?
Perhaps you should tell the FBI.
I just heard about this on NPR.
Can anyone but me say COINTELPRO?
Gozmo- I think that people already know that there are many terrorism sympathizers in the US. Recently there was a whole brouhaha about monies that were supposed to go to charitable causes were being funnelled to terrorist organizations. A professor in a local university near me was indicted as being the financial brains behind terrorist orgs.
I am not saying that there are not some in government who would not squelch dissent. There are. And I am not fond of many who are in government now. But we have to tread carefully, lest the terrorists use the freedoms that we enjoy in this country against us.
"The FBI is dangerously targeting Americans who are engaged in nothing more than lawful protest and dissent," said Anthony Romero, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union. "The line between terrorism and legitimate civil disobedience is blurred, and I have a serious concern about whether we're going back to the days of Hoover."
The abuses of the Hoover era, which included efforts by the FBI to harass and discredit Hoover's political enemies under a program known as Cointelpro, led to tight restrictions on FBI investigations of political activities.
Those restrictions were relaxed significantly last year, when Attorney General John Ashcroft issued guidelines giving FBI agents authority to attend political rallies, mosques and any event "that is open to the public."
I think, this is especially a great effort re showing some rough states (and invaded, like Iraq), what democracy is alike and how it works.
People there surely will like that, since changes to the/their former status are just minimal (if any).
Not to mention how Richard (shithouse) Nixon infiltrated legitemate protest groups and demonstrations with violent people who turned many a peaceful protest into televised battles.
Edgar:
And of course there are people like this
http://www.protestwarrior.com
What a group of neolithic nazi-wannabees!
Unfortunately, tolerance works both ways.
If any group of protestors is a danger to the US, and likely to engage in terrorism, it is groups like the one Neo linked to. But, since they seem to support the current administration, I would bet they receive funding and assitance from the government rather then suspicion.
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