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Are Dutch men, men?

 
 
Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 07:09 pm
At least, that is my impression when i read. What Ever Happened to the Vikings? By Elizabeth Debold.


Quote:
Sleuthing a bit, I discovered that in 2000, a feminist group at Stockholm University demanded that all urinals be removed because they were discriminatory to women.


Quote:
But it never occurred to me that as women took to their feet, men would sit down-on the john, no less!


Quote:
Ten years or so ago, I read a news story about how the Swedes were bored in the bedroom-their interest in sex had actually declined since the late sixties. The article suggested that women were finding it difficult to maintain sexual interest in their partners. In the effort to create a truly gender-equal society, Swedish men had become so, shall we say, similar in temperament to women that the spark that keeps an intimate relationship alive was getting snuffed out. Could it be that in Sweden, to put it a bit crudely, women were women, and the men were too?


The girls don` t like the guys, because the guys are so much like girls.

Quote:
Hard-core pornography is available on television. Women sunbathe wearing only G-strings in city parks.


Free porn on TV, and naked girls in the park.

Quote:
Denmark has one of the world's highest divorce rates. In eight out of ten cases, the woman ends the marriage.


This is what happens when men behave like women. The women are so turn off that they want a divorce.

Quote:
Martin jumps in, speaking rapidly but softly. "I have tried to give women what they say they want, but they always want something else. Women think that what they want is for the man to really talk and to be at home with the kids. But she doesn't want that for long. She wants a strong man."


Martin got it! Women like a strong men to tell them what they need to do. They don` t need a friend.

Quote:
"We end up relating to women in a way that is more like woman to woman, not man to woman," says Bo. "We are feminized in our relationships, and they don't last."


Some guys love to talk about their feelings. As such. they are great with women. They become their friend.

Quote:
"I think that the big problem with the new man is that we have forgotten to take responsibility. We let women make all of the decisions. And now we have no direction."


Quote:
But I find myself distracted. I can't get out of my head an encounter I had with one of the men after our meeting. We didn't say much, but as we stood face to face, I was drawn to his eyes, which conveyed a kind of yearning that I found almost irresistible. I'd never seen a man with eyes like that. And meeting the gaze of another man, I saw the same soft, beseeching quality in his eyes too. There was something so familiar about that look. As I turned away to join Peter and Jon, it hit me: I know where I'd seen that look before. The night before we three had been talking about classic masculine ideals and watched YouTube clips of Humphrey Bogart in the 1942 classic Casablanca. But the look isn't Bogart. No, it's the quavering, vulnerable expression in the eyes of Ingrid Bergman as she gazes at Bogart, her former lover and potential savior.


girlish eyes. Dutch men are desperate for women that they would do whatever. Desperate guys never get any.

Main point is that girls like guys that are dominating, powerful, and decisive. They will not stand for guys that like to talk about their emotions. They don` t like guys that would pick a major just so that they can get girls. To do so is doubt your own natural ability to get the girl, and in the eyes of most girls, it is a sign that you are not confident enough. Best way is to find that inner you that is horny, perverted, and impulsive.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 4,054 • Replies: 15
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kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 08:21 pm
@TuringEquivalent,
TuringEquivalent;148389 wrote:


Main point is that girls like guys that are dominating, powerful, and decisive. They will not stand for guys that like to talk about their emotions. They don` t like guys that would pick a major just so that they can get girls. To do so is doubt your own natural ability to get the girl, and in the eyes of most girls, it is a sign that you are not confident enough. Best way is to find that inner you that is horny, perverted, and impulsive.


Don't you think that you might want to find out what women think, or do you think that any empirical investigation would be superfluous?
Jebediah
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 09:14 pm
@kennethamy,
Quote:
Sleuthing a bit, I discovered that in 2000, a feminist group at Stockholm University demanded that all urinals be removed because they were discriminatory to women.
So what? Feminist groups have demanded lots of strange things in many countries.

Quote:
Ten years or so ago, I read a news story about how the Swedes were bored in the bedroom-
"read a news story"?? There are tons of terrible news stories.

Quote:
Denmark has one of the world's highest divorce rates. In eight out of ten cases, the woman ends the marriage.
Useless data. Needs source, comparison to other countries etc. The USA divorce rate is pretty high too. There are many factors involved.

Quote:
"We end up relating to women in a way that is more like woman to woman, not man to woman," says Bo. "We are feminized in our relationships, and they don't last."
Anecdotes.

*************

Basically, the entire article seems to be someone plucking out data and anecdotes to support their belief.

Is there a problem with men acting more like women? Who knows, I haven't seen it as a trend, but don't know of any decent studies on it. But crappy journalism bugs me.
0 Replies
 
TuringEquivalent
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 09:54 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;148401 wrote:
Don't you think that you might want to find out what women think, or do you think that any empirical investigation would be superfluous?



Women in general do not know what they want. They want a sensitive guy, but they also want a decisive guy that take responsibility. How is that even possible? Being sensitive means you are willing to listen to all sides. It is hard work to also be decisive.

---------- Post added 04-04-2010 at 11:04 PM ----------

Jebediah;148408 wrote:
So what? Feminist groups have demanded lots of strange things in many countries.

"read a news story"?? There are tons of terrible news stories.

Useless data. Needs source, comparison to other countries etc. The USA divorce rate is pretty high too. There are many factors involved.

Anecdotes.

*************

Basically, the entire article seems to be someone plucking out data and anecdotes to support their belief.

Is there a problem with men acting more like women? Who knows, I haven't seen it as a trend, but don't know of any decent studies on it. But crappy journalism bugs me.


she is a researcher from Harvard, so i guess she should at least know all the biases that comes with making any inference from observations.. There are also good empirical evidence that if a girl see you as her "friend"; it is very hard for her to see you beyond "friend". It seems dutch guys are condition to be the girl`s friend. The girls don` t like it, so they divorce their asses. Girls also are stereotyped to like "bad boys", and they tend to not care too much for rules, and being nice.
0 Replies
 
jgweed
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Apr, 2010 08:33 am
@TuringEquivalent,
But isn't this the same kind of generalisation as "all Pisces are moody" at least because it ignores all the exceptions and variations we find in everyday life?
Shouldn't we be uncomfortable with an assertion that there are "perfect" Platonic forms of manhood and womenness, and that only a union between the two can be a meaningful relationship?
xris
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Apr, 2010 08:44 am
@jgweed,
I blame the water quality.
0 Replies
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Apr, 2010 09:04 am
@TuringEquivalent,
0 Replies
 
TuringEquivalent
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Apr, 2010 05:27 pm
@jgweed,
jgweed;148537 wrote:

Shouldn't we be uncomfortable with an assertion that there are "perfect" Platonic forms of manhood and womenness, and that only a union between the two can be a meaningful relationship?



I think girls will generally( or with probability of more than .5) divorce your ass if you act like a woman. It is (i like to think) an empirical fact that women, like the strong "platonic form of manhood". I also think it is why Dutch women initiates the divorce.

It is probably not like " all red objects, are colored", but it is more like "There is a one standard deviation beyond the mean average of the general population that you are going to get cancer".
0 Replies
 
sarek
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 05:13 am
@TuringEquivalent,
@TuringEquivalent: Correct me if I am wrong but not one of the quotes was visibly attributed to Dutch men, yet your closing statement seems to imply that it was.

Am I missing something obvious or is this just another example of the lacklustre tendency to mix up Denmark and the Netherlands? That something I have been trying to educate all my overseas friends on. They all make that same mistake.
TuringEquivalent
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 05:17 am
@sarek,
sarek;148759 wrote:
@TuringEquivalent: Correct me if I am wrong but not one of the quotes was visibly attributed to Dutch men, yet your closing statement seems to imply that it was.

Am I missing something obvious or is this just another example of the lacklustre tendency to mix up Denmark and the Netherlands? That something I have been trying to educate all my overseas friends on. They all make that same mistake.


If you read the article, the examples are mostly from the Dutch. So, yes, it is true that it is not specific to the Dutch. It is all the other countries around Denmark as well.
0 Replies
 
sarek
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 05:28 am
@TuringEquivalent,
I think what is truly sad is the guy who first reads the glossy mags to find out how he is supposed to behave. spruitjes, blehh..
TuringEquivalent
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 05:56 am
@sarek,
sarek;148762 wrote:
I think what is truly sad is the guy who first reads the glossy mags to find out how he is supposed to behave. spruitjes, blehh..


Do you mean the first Dutch guy? It must be interesting to be socially conditioned to be the girl` s friend all the time. Dutch guys are so sensitive to women.
0 Replies
 
sarek
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 06:04 am
@TuringEquivalent,
Well, life is changing. Getting more complicated all the time. And divorce rates are up all over the western world, for a wide variety of reasons.
This could be one reason, and then again it could be not. Only a few decades ago in the average relationship the woman never even had the option of bugging out due to the socio-economic consequences.
Its kind of hard to exercise your will if you have no place to go. All that has changed.
Furthermore the influence of the church has also declined which is another factor.
And even more in general, I feel that across the board people have become far more egocentric and less willing to invest in relationships.
Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 08:58 am
@sarek,
sarek;148769 wrote:
Well, life is changing. Getting more complicated all the time. And divorce rates are up all over the western world, for a wide variety of reasons.
This could be one reason, and then again it could be not. Only a few decades ago in the average relationship the woman never even had the option of bugging out due to the socio-economic consequences.
Its kind of hard to exercise your will if you have no place to go. All that has changed.
Furthermore the influence of the church has also declined which is another factor.
And even more in general, I feel that across the board people have become far more egocentric and less willing to invest in relationships.

What does that has to do with dutch ? We are n6t a gloomy people. We are Ha**5est !

*e*51n Swee*
ag5ster

2ey-b6ard Exc4s
xris
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 09:21 am
@Pepijn Sweep,
Pepijn Sweep;148786 wrote:
What does that has to do with dutch ? We are n6t a gloomy people. We are Ha**5est !

*e*51n Swee*
ag5ster

2ey-b6ard Exc4s
I do not compute this lingo..please explain?
Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 10:02 am
@xris,
xris;148794 wrote:
I do not compute this lingo..please explain?


Serious problem with fn-key. Struggle-ing 1 finger system now.

Said dutch are happy people.
men are men; woman themselves
pretty liberal Dutch, NB imigrants

*e*Y
Pepijn Sweep:shifty:
0 Replies
 
 

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