Is there something left after desire?

Well, much of psychology depends upon talk, upon the interpretation of language, so this isn't like chemistry, I wouldn't think. There were certain psychologists who denied the existence or the use of consciousness. B. F. Skinner, who wrote a strange book (which is no doubt exciting) called Beyond Freedom and Dignity. It's a twisted title, isn't it? He had watermelons for balls. Or not.

Freud was a genius. Of course some of his thoughts are dated. Whose don't? It's not about a fallacy. It's about the method in general, which is interpretative and metaphorical. The jargon may be modern, but the concepts are largely the same old concepts.

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I am with you on all of this, except that the Shamans may work on the psyche which in some cases may be the cause of the problem. In any case, having someone try to help you is comforting.

I have nothing against the responsible use of technology. I especially love computers. And I would be screwed without my dentist. Screwed.

---------- Post added 05-27-2010 at 02:08 AM ----------


I agree with this, too. Capitalism is the most productive social organization the world has seen, I think. And this is related also to technology. All of this has been great. But we've got to be careful not to sink spaceship Earth, or let this technology steal our bodies and minds. What about traffic jams? The point of cars is motion. But the cities crowd and before long you have people sitting in their 5000 pound cars, hardly moving, polluting the air. Brilliant! Our tools can sometimes smack us in the face w/o the proper social organization. And our abstract money can encourage us to forget what really holds society together, which is a decency between human beings. Do you know about the "tragedy of the commons" concept?Tragedy of the commons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
That's the dark side of too much individualism, either between citizens or nations.

That's right, Serunato. Desire is part of motivation. There is no unmotivated action (not to speak of reflex and instinct). When we're hungry we desire to eat and when sleepy we desire to sleep. But attachments, and cravings are something else. They are more than passing expressions of my body and personality; they are obsessive fixations at the level of ideation that "clouds" the mind.

to me, desiring is suffering, because budhha taught us nothing thing lasts forever, we were all born empty handed and only nothing will follow us after death accept for our deeds that we have done which will lead us to reborn to a life in different abodes which we have to pay for our karmas (higher abodes include: heavens, human beings, titans; and lower abodes: hells, hungry ghosts, and animal kingdom). Those karmas are sins that we have done with a selfish view: 'i' 'mine' 'myself''which will benefit us in certain ways (or greed). Budhha decide to teach the way of nirvana not to benefit himself but to others since he is already enlightened and completely deleted the ten feters ( believe in an individual self, doubt or uncertain about the dharma, attachment to wrong doings,sensual desire and hatred, craving for existence, craving for non existence, pride in self, restlessness or distraction, and ignorance.), and the ten perfections (Generosity (dana), morality, renunciation, wisdom, effort, patience, truthfulness, resolution-determination, loving kindness, equanimity). In other words when you have deleted the 'I' 'mine' 'myself', anything you do will not have the selfish self which was driving you in the circle of samsara but will be full of compassion and wisdom like the budhhas and bodhisattvas, and you will attain enlightenment or nirvana.

Nirvana, you cite good Buddhist doctrine. I do hope, however, that you see past the metaphors, titans, lower abodes, hells, hungry ghosts, etc.). It is my view that what we really need to do is not simply to "believe doctrine" ( as is the case with all "religions") but to actualize, by means of meditation and lifestyle, our true nature--which I'm sure you have done or will do.

other peoples desire and your compassion for them

I agree that the elimination of desire is not the central means by which Buddhists pursue enligtenment. It is more the cultivation of compassion. That is promoted by insight into the nature of "craving", i.e., the identification with desires such as they strenghten the delusion of a craving self separate from all that is non-self.

Not all "desires" are created equal, seems. There's probably some translation difficulties between Pali and English. Dhamma-chanda, for example, is translated as "desire as part of the path." Desire as defilement is either lobha, kamacchanda or raga (or all three).

To abandon desire is not to become unmotivated to do anything. As a matter of fact, it doesn't much alter one's day-t0-day behavior, except mentally. Meditations on goodwill and compassion can help guide one's behavior in - in Buddhist terms - wholesome ways. If you find yourself just sitting there all but lifelessly, you're doing it wrong. Re-examine the dhamma and work out both the explicit and implicit messages.

As always, I recommend the Pali suttas, as they are regarded by Buddhist scholars as the best available record of what the historical person, Siddhartha Gautama, said, did and taught (not saying they're perfect, though).

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.126.than.html

answer: following bliss without attachment.

right, because being motivated to live life need not (and I say is best if not) have anything to do with desire for particular things. Desire, and feeling of defeat when you dont get what you were after, distract from enjoyment of life. when you no longer live by desire you dont stay in bed all day, you cant wait to get out of bed to see what the day brings.