Drugs

@Imnotrussian,

I wouldn't say you are wrong. Sure, you are breaking laws by possessing the chemicals, but you are far from alone. I used to do the same things you listed, but as I have grown older, I guess I have grown out of that state of mind. Personally, I don't see why society feels the need to legislate behavior that does not harm anyone other than the user--if the behavior is truly harmful to begin with. We let people bungee jump and sky dive, which may be even more dangerous than taking drugs. It just seems to scream hypocrisy to me. Why are some behaviors considered dangerous and need of being made illegal, but others are not?

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@Imnotrussian,

Good or bad what?

I'm not big on summary moral judgements for personal decisions.

If you choose to use drugs, then you accept the effects you like at the potential cost of side effects, which in some cases can be addiction or death (or permanent psychiatric disease in the case of your chosen favorites). You accept the risk of legal penalties. And you accept the risk of throwing all your other goals in life asunder as happens with some people who use drugs.

Are you wrong? I don't know. Whatever floats your boat.

Is it worth the risk? Your body, your life -- but you'd better not come near anyone I care about while driving a car after doing this stuff.

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@Imnotrussian,

lol im responsible, and i do accept the consequences but having taken care to protect myself and my environment does that make my act any less acceptable?

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@Imnotrussian,

I think much drug legislation is an attempt at trying to form some sort of religious and moral utopia. But it continues to fail, so I think it is time to come up with new ways of dealing with drug abusers. There is no way that drugs will ever be eradicated, so it may be time to start looking at treatment rather than incarceration. It is more dangerous to society that heroin is illegal, than some sort of regulated legality. Dirty needles lead to things like HIV and AIDS spreading through populations. Thus, a drug problem becomes a societal problem due to the fact that there are serious health risks associated with not having clean needles readily available. While I am not necessarily condoning drug use, I am condoning responsibility. It makes no sense to put innocent people at unnecessary risk of serious disease just to try to form a Utopian society in which all drugs have disappeared due to law enforcement.

1 Reply

@Imnotrussian,

Ask yourself in terms of your personal responsibilities, including 1) your use of money, 2) your use of time, 3) your obligations to school or work, 4) your obligations to your family (including bettering yourself and keeping yourself healthy).

How do you judge yourself? You can rationalize that you're responsible, but you know that what you're doing can be fatal (however unlikely), and you know that many people lose control of it despite belief to the contrary.

So without taking for granted that you know you're safe, can you give yourself a complete 100% pass? You wouldn't have asked the question unless you had some sort of concern about it...

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@Imnotrussian,

Im speaking from a biased view here but i believe that certain "harmful" drugs like heroin should be illegalised and that rehabilitation is mandetory, i know i sound hypocritical and that the effects of individual drugs would be held in higher esteem for other users but from an experienced POV some drug use is less harmful than the media and governments interpret.

The personal concerns highlighted in the origins of this question come from my experiences (good or bad) which have after much time equalled. i am no healthier or unhealthier than i was before the drugs, still athletic and if anything smarter. The minimal positive aspects weighed up against the negative aspects led me to involve an anonymous and unbiased opinion.

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@Theaetetus,

Theaetetus;74874 wrote:

It is more dangerous to society that heroin is illegal, than some sort of regulated legality. Dirty needles lead to things like HIV and AIDS spreading through populations.

There is absolutely no evidence or even rationale that legalizing heroin would improve HIV transmission rates. People can get clean needles if they want. They're just too f*'d up on heroin. Lord knows I've taken care of probably hundreds if not thousands of heroin addicts in my career -- and it's not because it's illegal that they don't have their lives together...

---------- Post added 07-04-2009 at 09:43 PM ----------

Imnotrussian;74878 wrote:

Im speaking from a biased view here but i believe that certain "harmful" drugs like heroin should be illegalised and that rehabilitation is mandetory...

I think that marijuana is an exceptional case because of its safety. All others need to be taken case by case. I do not think that PCP or LSD can be considered safe by any stretch. Mushrooms are not either, but they cannot be made illegal (as far as I know).

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@Imnotrussian,

Imnotrussian;74878 wrote:

Im speaking from a biased view here but i believe that certain "harmful" drugs like heroin should be illegalised and that rehabilitation is mandetory, i know i sound hypocritical and that the effects of individual drugs would be held in higher esteem for other users but from an experienced POV some drug use is less harmful than the media and governments interpret

That just seems like a rationalization to attempt to justify your own drug use. As I have said, I used to do the same drugs that you listed. I still smoke weed on rare occasions, but I grew bored of trying to alter my consciousness on a regular basis. I don't think you can seriously advocate for certain drugs being legalized without considering the effects of illegality of other drugs. Remember that a heroin addict that ends up with HIV due to dirty needles can infect others by having sex with them. In many ways, intravenous drugs should be legalized just to control the methods in which they are distributed.

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@Imnotrussian,

i see both points, i say the same about cannibis, if it was legalised, controlled and taxed then crime would drop and the recession situation would have a new income to take into account

1 Reply

@Aedes,

Aedes;74879 wrote:

There is absolutely no evidence or even rationale that legalizing heroin would improve HIV transmission rates. People can get clean needles if they want. They're just too f*'d up on heroin. Lord knows I've taken care of probably hundreds if not thousands of heroin addicts in my career -- and it's not because it's illegal that they don't have their lives together...

Thanks for that piece of evidence. As someone that is not in the medical field, my knowledge is very limited. I have been reading a book about the cultural history of intoxication, so my limited knowledge is probably skewed by that individual author's perspective.

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@Imnotrussian,

On legalization laws : All hallucinagenics listed in Pikal? or Tikal? (Check sp) are illegal under Class A purely because of their unpredictability

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@Imnotrussian,

We say that (about crime and legalization), but I don't know that it's true. First of all, there isn't much crime around the cannabis trade (except for the growth / sale / use of cannabis itself).

With cocaine and heroin, on the other hand, when people become addicted to the point where their lives fall apart, it will drive them to crime to afford their habit (as happens frequently with alcoholics), or it will drive a black market that is no different than the current status quo. A black market will always be able to undersell a legal market for things like cocaine and heroin, especially since unlike moonshine the stuff is going to be coming from Columbia, Peru, Afghanistan, Myanmar, etc.

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@Imnotrussian,

Imnotrussian;74882 wrote:

i see both points, i say the same about cannibis, if it was legalised, controlled and taxed then crime would drop and the recession situation would have a new income to take into account

I just think it is ridiculous that as a society we spend so much money putting nonviolent "criminals" into prisons and jails. That money could be spent far more responsibly. Most drug users are no harm to anyone but themselves. It just makes no sense to lock them up behind bars.

1 Reply

@Imnotrussian,

I have thought about Drug control zones, places where certain users can go and take drugs (like acid bars in japan), and cannot leave until the drug has worn off, keeping all users totally separate from society

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@Theaetetus,

Theaetetus;74885 wrote:

Thanks for that piece of evidence.

Needle exchange programs have worked quite well.

There are legal uses of hypodermic needles (like for insulin, for instance), and people can probably get clean ones if they try (though they're not sold over the counter).

In healthcare settings, needles should always be used only once (they are never ever sent for sterilization), but there are some protocols that people use in developing countries for reuse in places where you just can't get clean ones. It's discouraged by every single body of literature I know (and I've worked in this area before), but there are ways of treating needles that would reduce transmission. But I don't think this is done among IV drug users.

The thing is that people who shoot up together share their needle, and it's not like they're going to change it out or soak it in chlorine and then autoclave it between hits. And it probably doesn't matter whether it's legal or not if people are doing it together.

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@Imnotrussian,

Quote:

There are legal uses of hypodermic needles (like for insulin, for instance), and people can probably get clean ones if they try (though they're not sold over the counter).

In the UK needles are free from the NHS to dissuade people to share.
Our society is made up of different types of junkies
God save the queen!

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@Imnotrussian,

Imnotrussian;74857 wrote:

Drugs- Good or Bad?

First, why are there only these two moralistic choices?
'Good' and 'bad' are very shortsighted judgements at best!
Second, people self-medicate. Whatever the 'reason' or 'consequence' the taking of 'drugs' is a self-medication.
Third, Nobel Prize winning Dr. Frank Crick admitted to being high on LSD when he discovered DNA! "Good" or "bad"? He admitted at the end of his life so that the 'establishment' wouldn't 'stone him to death'!
I'd say that a majority of the leaps of genius in the worlds arts and sciences are related to people using 'drugs', 'transcending' the mundane herd mentality.

1 Reply

@nameless,

nameless;74900 wrote:

Third, Nobel Prize winning Dr. Frank Crick admitted to being high on LSD when he discovered DNA!

He plagiarized a lot of what he and Watson used. All Crick did was sit in his office playing with molecular model kits.

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@Imnotrussian,

hello Iamnotrussian, neither am I.

Judging from your signature, you don't seem to be having a very good time. Just an observation is all.

William

1 Reply

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