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Wagner ring theme, Morricone's "Ecstasy of Gold"...

 
 
Reply Sun 23 May, 2010 04:46 pm
I may be the only person on the planet who's ever figured this one out, shame if I were to get run over and the knowledge go with me.....

I once heard an old German conductor describe the idea behind the theme of the ring which you hear in Rheingold, e.g. on this youtube sequence starting around 1:50 i.e. a minute and fifty seconds and there's a little timer at the bottom of the thing which ticks off:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiyoLa9z1ao

The theme is the thing you hear with the single mid-range violin. The conductor described it thus, that the theme ran around in a circle like a ring always coming back to the same point, which was like human greed which never led anybody anywhere other than in vicious circles. That was what the Niebelung's golden ring symbolized in Richard Wagner's conception of the thing. The piece goes to about 240 - 243 on the youtube piece.

What I am convinced of is that Ennio Morricone copied not the music itself but the basic idea behind it for his "Ecstasy of Gold" piece in Sergio Leone's "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly", which is likely to achieve immortality as the all-time ultimate western. The scene shows Tuco (Eli Wallach) running in a circle in a circular grave yard until his path finally blurs into a ring of sorts, looking for the one grave with the federal gold shipment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PwpOmjAu1M

Try watching the two pieces and see if you can't see the relationship.




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Type: Discussion • Score: 6 • Views: 3,477 • Replies: 27
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 May, 2010 05:47 pm
@gungasnake,
I always thought that Liszt's "Les Preludes" sounded awfully close to the theme songs of FLASH GORDON.

Anybody who can stand listening to Der Ring... deserves a PhD is=n musicology without any diss or any fuckin committee.
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 May, 2010 05:50 pm
@farmerman,
I didn't say I was any sort of a ring freak... If I had to pick one of Wagner's operas to listen to it's usually gonna be the ghost story, Flying Dutchman.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 May, 2010 06:52 pm
@gungasnake,
I appreciate R Strauss . I can take Wagner in small chunks. When you read his librettos, Im amazed at the pithy stuff therein



Fofner singing
I have a castle , It is made of stone"

Not exactly Lambseedoats.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 11:44 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
Anybody who can stand listening to Der Ring... deserves a PhD is=n musicology without any diss or any fuckin committee.

I suppose we can't be friends, then.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 12:30 pm
@Thomas,
YOU like "Der Ring..."?
I thought that you were cooler than that.
The only way I ever even got close to listening to it , Once I was stoned out of my skull and I made ith through about the first 3 hours.

I aint ever goin to the BAyroid Festival unless the let Keith JArrett play.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 02:01 pm
@farmerman,
I am a perfect Wagnerite, just like George Bernard Shaw. Are you telling me Shaw wasn't cool?
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 02:10 pm
@gungasnake,
To answer your question, gungasnake: I can only see a very general similarity between Wagner's and Morricone's themes. They're both made up of triads, and that they both prominently feature a downward third. But the same could be said of many musical themes, and I'm not seeing any further resemblance between these two particular ones. What am I missing?
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 02:11 pm
Opie & Anthony start their radio show with Ennio Morricone's "The Ecstasy of Gold", and then supply a five hour extravaganza of nonsense and dick jokes
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 02:19 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

I always thought that Liszt's "Les Preludes" sounded awfully close to the theme songs of FLASH GORDON.

Are you talking about the old Universal serials with Buster Crabbe? If you are, the reason that the music sounds like "Les Preludes" is because it is "Les Preludes." They didn't spend a lot of money on those serials, so there was no attempt to compose an original score.

farmerman wrote:
Anybody who can stand listening to Der Ring... deserves a PhD is=n musicology without any diss or any fuckin committee.

I've seen two complete Ring cycles, so I guess that means I'm some kind of super musicologist.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2010 03:08 pm
@joefromchicago,
You've gotta respect a dramatist who starts his work with the stage underwater, and finishes it by setting the stage on fire. Move over, Jimi Hendrix!
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Oct, 2013 10:51 am
@gungasnake,
Morricone link had gone dead... this works:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubVc2MQwMkg
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Oct, 2013 11:35 am
@Thomas,
I'll tell ya Shaw wasn't cool . . . Wagner sucks, never mind his nasty personality and his antisemitism and his extreme German nationalism, his music is largely distinguished by being loud. This is the one piece of intricate, sensitive music he wrote . . .



Of course, i could be wrong--as Bill Nye said, "Wagner's music is better than it sounds."

"The banging and slamming and booming and crashing were something beyond belief. The racking and pitiliess pain of it remains stored up in my memory alongside the memory of the time that I had my teeth fixed..."

-- Samuel Clemens
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Oct, 2013 11:42 am
OK, i'll include the Liebestod, too . . .



Only the Germans would have a word that means "love-death."
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Oct, 2013 02:54 pm
@Setanta,
I reread this thread after 3 years on the shelf. I was amused at Joe's magisterial tone at my comment about Les Preludes.
The fact that he listened to Das Ring... 3 times , is not unusual. It is creepy however.
I always picture Wagner "Ringophiles" as being nascent cereal killers
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Oct, 2013 03:57 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
I always picture Wagner "Ringophiles" as being nascent cereal killers

Accurately so. Every time I enter my kitchen, the cornflakes start shaking in their box. Hoyotohooo, I say!
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Oct, 2013 04:14 pm
@Thomas,
aha, see?
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Oct, 2013 12:06 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
...his music is largely distinguished by being loud....



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoSLD1sCyfc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfPzFmkhags

for starters...
0 Replies
 
coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Oct, 2013 02:52 pm
Whether one likes Wagner or not, Thomas's comments are riotously funny.

The Met did the complete "ring" last year and PBS broadcast it, all 17 hours or so, using the "machine" as the set. It was quite an experience. I saw all but one hour of it and was mesmerized by my first and, hopefully, not my last "ring".

Still, one can't but laugh at what Mark Twain--I think--said. "The music of Wagner is better than it sounds."
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Oct, 2013 03:57 pm
@coluber2001,
That was Bill Nye . . . Clemens was just quoting him. If you had actually read the thread, you'd have seen that because i quoted him earlier.
 

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