Climategate Fraud Investigation

I would dearly like to see them held accoutable.....causing public alarm, fraud, libel...it would be sweet !

Most of them couldn't help it - the system was set up that way; this article by Prof. Lindzen makes it very clear:

http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0809/0809.3762.pdf

Yeah, I just get excited when I think of a good old fashioned hanging...

On the climategate issue they just proved themselves to be even worse fools than originally taken for. Their true crime was diverting time and resources from vastly more serious problems - they're guilty of cupidity and stupidity, but not treason, so let's move on.

Please focus on the more important (and urgent) problems:

you know history and you were in Afghanistan, so is Gandamak a word to you? Is Thomas Souter a name to you? I just think we should pick up such chips as we still have left on the table and call for an orderly retreat before it's too late. I'd like to hear your views on that subject.

Wouldnt that be hijacking the thread ? It is a complex problem...

Gunga is a good guy - it's his thread and he won't mind. In fact he'll be interested to read on, as will I. Go!

First, I have to say you have assumed I served in Afghanistan. I have the firm principle of neither confirming nor denying anything about my service except it was 24 yrs and left me pissed off. I will say there are only some artillerymen serving with the British, the main Australian force and the Dutch have their own province.

There were a lot of doomsayers about Iraq, and that war is basically won.

Afghanistan, as you alluded to, has a history of sitting on tops of mountains and shooting at foriegners. We are going through the dark days, and their is probably a light at the end of the tunnel....is it the end of the tunnel or is it a train ? Since Korea it has been widely known by the enemies of the west that our civilian pop will not tolerate a large death toll. In the case of Afghan. it is no more than the soldiers who would be lost if they were on home station. The cost of the war is another matter, as all those soldiers killed have families entitled to compensation whereas they wouldnt have if the same losses occured back home.

Given the Afghan peoples resilience to war, we had better find a political solution. There is a type of military solution that involves training up Afghans and the co-operation of Pakistan, but the final hurdle is then the poverty of the place. People buy petrol and drugs, and both the money from these fuels the Taliban who pay far more than the local forces.

No-one likes the Taliban there, but they are prepared to be better paid for their work so there will never be a shortage of voluteers. Drying up the source of their funds would help a great deal, but I dont know enough about this to suggest how it could be done other than to replace drugs with real crops and close the banking links from Saudis to Pakistanis.

Thank you. As far as military objectives go, I can't think of anything that was gained in Iraq or can ever be gained in Afghanistan.

On the subject of fraud and waste of taxpayers' monies - and there we're on topic after all, that being Gunga's thread title - both wars look very much alike:

http://www.thenation.com/article/aiding-insurgency

That article also contains summaries of auditor reports for Iraq. Same sad story as with the Climategate fraud - numbers were invented and records were falsified just to keep government grant money flowing in. Corruption in Afghanistan is worse still. Vietnam was about halfway between these 2, financially speaking.

There's got to be a better way to combine overseas force projection and foreign aid - preferably one not risking lives of our troops.

The security of many smaller Arab nations was gained by neutralising Iraq.....it also frightened the hell out of Syria.....that leaves Iran, a much bigger kettle of fish.
It is close to many central asians states that no-one wants to see fail...it has considerable influence on Pakistani politics and thus on Indian politics. It along with Iraq, borders Iran and it doesnt hurt to ratchet up the pressure there. Mainly it was supporting terrorists that attacked the USA and other nationals around the world.
True that.
Nothing comes to mind....