27
   

The Gulf Oil Spill in a Nutshell

 
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2010 03:56 pm
@spendius,
Do you heat your home? use public transportation? consume beer transported in a truck? You too are a consumer of petroleum products. At what level of consumption does guilt begin in your peculiar moral construct?

If you were hit and killed by a truck on your way home from the pub while obeying all rules for pedestrians, who would be at fault? The truck driver? Or all users of trucks?
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2010 05:08 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Nonsense and vapid hyper-gheneralizations, Spendi. Why don't you do some research into BP's safety record over the past five years, compared to those of the other major petroleum producers & distributors.? You'll find a big difference. They brought this one on themselves, and they are to blame for it.

I don't support out lightweight President's attempts to demonize BP - a charade he does for his own political purposes. However, neither do I buy your irrational attempts to blame consumers, and, in effect, absolve BP for the responsibility for its own actions.


I ask you specifically - in what way has he demonized them? Not a single thing he's said about them is untrue.

I am beginning to wonder if you really know what the word 'demonize' means; it does not mean saying aggressive or mean things about people or companies, especially when those things happen to be perfectly true.

Cycloptichorn
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jun, 2010 05:17 pm
@georgeob1,
Come on George. This is about scale. 5% of the world's population consumes 25% of oil directly and some more as a component of the cheap labour products that are imported. And you are in the top 10% of that 5%. Maybe the top 2%. And present it to us as a superior mode of living.

Consumption on my scale, as you brought it up, would have oil lasting thousands of years and require no risky drilling. I recognise that it would put the DOW into double figures but that's just an aspect of the addiction.

It's odd how republican George is at odds with Mrs Palin and in bed with the boy wonder. "Drill Baby Drill" sounds to me a devil take the hindmost idea. Just drill.

Do you really think I would care whose fault it was if I was killed by a truck.

What did for prohibition? The bootleggers or the demand for alcohol? Who causes prostitution--the prostitutes or their customers?

Quote:
At what level of consumption does guilt begin in your peculiar moral construct?


When silly-soddery comes into play. And I'm not talking about guilt. I'm talking about conspicuous consumption as an ego stroker and, as such, unlike carnal pleasures, having no limit. Which is why pride is a deadlier sin than lust or gluttony. There's a "phew!!" factor with those two.

And when this **** washes up on the coast of Mexico and Cuba the people there won't even have participated in the fun. And the businesses which are being damaged would not exist but for cheap oil.
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  0  
Reply Tue 22 Jun, 2010 04:43 am
Quote:
Thursday June 17, 2010
Obama's Simplified BP Oil Spill Speech
This is how you speak about the BP oil spill in the way Americans can understand: See Spot. See Spot spread. Stop, Spot, stop. (01:54)

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/312658/june-17-2010/obama-s-simplified-bp-oil-spill-speech
0 Replies
 
electronicmail
 
  0  
Reply Tue 22 Jun, 2010 03:04 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
My name isn't George but I can answer your question about the way Obama has demonized BP. A federal judge already did just that, best to quote him directly http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-oil-spill-moratorium-20100623,0,7804590.story
Quote:
the federal government acted "arbitrarily and capriciously" in imposing the halt....The ruling was a strong blow to Obama......

I'm no fan of teamObama striking blindly (to cover its own fuckups) at anybody, be it the 2nd honorable general in Afghanistan coming to grief by enforcing the idiotic orders of his political masters or an oil company drilling with the blessing of the MMS, a bureaucracy successfully competing with the Karzai cleptocracy on sheer venality and incompetence. That Obama"demonized BP" and that he did so "arbitrarily and capriciously"was right and I say that as no fan of "cut-every-corner-BP". It's the truth.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jun, 2010 03:04 pm
@electronicmail,
Im a geologist but Im not sure what the questions are? Please dont pose a question by asking me to read a link forst. Thats a bit rude. Its like bringing some eggs into a restaurant and asking the chef to cook em for you. As far as the other stuff on this thread, thats some other folks having a rutting demo.
electronicmail
 
  0  
Reply Tue 22 Jun, 2010 03:08 pm
@farmerman,
I'm sorry I'm new on this forum and I didn't realize that. I will go back to the original link I posted and seek to formulate specific questions on the 2 separate issues. BRB. Thank you.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jun, 2010 03:09 pm
@electronicmail,
electronicmail wrote:

My name isn't George but I can answer your question about the way Obama has demonized BP. A federal judge already did just that, best to quote him directly http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-oil-spill-moratorium-20100623,0,7804590.story
Quote:
the federal government acted "arbitrarily and capriciously" in imposing the halt....The ruling was a strong blow to Obama......


No, it wasn't a 'strong blow' to Obama. It doesn't really matter to them at all, because they will just appeal the decision and not issue any permits till the appeal is done.

I would point out as well that the judge in question not only showed sketchy logic in his decision, but that he owns large quantities of stock in the deepwater drilling industry.

Nevertheless, what you posted has nothing to do with claims of 'demonization.'

Quote:
I'm no fan of teamObama striking blindly at anybody (to cover its own fuckups) be it the 2nd honorable Afghanistan general coming to grief by enforcing the idiotic orders of his political masters or an oil company drilling with the blessing of the MMS, a bureaucracy successfully competing with the Karzai cleptocracy on sheer venality and incompetence. That Obama"demonized BP" and that he did so "arbitrarily and capriciously"was right and I say that as no fan of "cut-every-corner-BP". It's the truth.


You don't even know what the word demonize means, which is unsurprising seeing as you don't understand calendars or mathematics either. I wonder if you could point out one thing Obama has said about BP or any other company which isn't true. I doubt you will be able to do so.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Tue 22 Jun, 2010 03:09 pm
@electronicmail,
There is NO abionic oil. That is a rdeam state of a few fringey Luddites who dont know how the process is completed. The chemical processes and the polymerization of methane can make several long chain organics but not the really complex compounds that make up crudes. Besides, there are no oil deposits ANYWHERE that show anything but fossil themro reactions and the oil reservoirs are all associated with known geologic repositories.

I hope this answers one of your questions.
electronicmail
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jun, 2010 03:18 pm
@farmerman,
So it does, thank you. I also thought "abiotic petroleum" sounded crazy but I'm no geologist or petroleum engineer so I thought I would ask. That gets us to the 2nd question, really not so much about geology, more akin to naval vessel engineering, but I hope you'll take a stab
Quote:
Since deepwater drilling rigs operate in “harm’s way” in a manner similar to naval surface combatants which can be subjected to underwater explosive loadings, it is proposed that the lessons learned over decades by the US Navy in shock testing, shock qualification and shock mounting of all types of naval shipboard equipments (piping, electrical, motors, storage tanks, antennas, propulsions systems, fans, generators, winches, cable systems, deck edge elevators, control systems,etc) be applied in all future designs of deepwater drilling rigs and that there be a “QPL” (Shock Qualified Parts List) developed in the future as to only Mil-type certified equipments being used in all future deepwater drilling rig worldwide.

Ultimately what I'm asking is if there's any way the whole damn sea floor in the Gulf could keep erupting at a rate of 100,000 barrels /day or worse for years to come. Also and I know that's probably too much to ask there's another BP platform Atlantis drilling at 12,000 ft of Atlantic waters and even the MMS belatedly said that's even more dangerous than the Macondo field. Thanks a lot for your reply.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 22 Jun, 2010 03:40 pm
@electronicmail,
That sounds like a question that maybe Jim (the oil field engineer whos been missing many months) or Georgeob (an ex exec officer on an aircraft carrier) would know. Ive worked on oil rigs but was never much to understand how the self steeringmaechanisms worked other than to know that it consisted of several engine "pods" and sensors. Our drill pipes and bits were also connected via internals so that we could do "walk over" placement of the bits to within several feet of target. Today, the technology is way better. Ive done slant drilling where weve started at two different points and caused to drill bits starting a different compass points to meet in the centyer. Thats what the reliefe wells are doing. They are drilling several miles deep and will have to"hit" the drill stem of the blowout well and its less than 12 Inches in diameter. They are trying to get the formation pressure to work for them in this case. I dont believe they will be pumping any oil out of the relief wells. I believe they will become "stoppers" in a big wine bottle. ANd the PK logs are probably showing that the pressure at that depth is handleable for a barium bentonite polymer cement plug. I hope it works cause if it fails (and it could) we will maybe have 3 blowouts in the floor of the gulf.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jun, 2010 03:41 pm
@farmerman,
The BOP is now leaning by 12% or more, and there's a real worry that the whole thing could collapse far before the relief wells are done...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 22 Jun, 2010 03:43 pm
@electronicmail,
"Abiotic petroleum" has been a kind of joke since several famous Creationist wildcatters had posed the point as a "proof" that the earth is actually less than 10000 years old. One guy named "Hayseed" (something) was even on radio for several years boasting about how man and dinosaurs lived together and how the deep earth chemistry was responsible for oil.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jun, 2010 04:34 pm
@farmerman,
I would very much like to see Jim back on board.
0 Replies
 
electronicmail
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jun, 2010 04:50 pm
@farmerman,
Thank you again.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jun, 2010 04:54 pm
@farmerman,
But fm this is the question that's obviously bothering em--(and many others)--

Quote:
Ultimately what I'm asking is if there's any way the whole damn sea floor in the Gulf could keep erupting at a rate of 100,000 barrels /day or worse for years to come.


And your answer is yes it could and might even get worse. There was no need for you to go through all that rigmarole which was basically an explanation of what a top notch "rutter" you are. I choose the word because of your projecting others doing it when, in actual fact, they were merely trying to take a rational view. You are on the "rutting demo".

If a lady took that long to say "yes" we would all lose interest. Or at least I would.
0 Replies
 
electronicmail
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2010 05:36 am
@farmerman,
I didn't know abiotic petroleum was such a big joke but at least none of those cranks claims abiotic methane gas. Methane is filling up the Gulf alongside the oil and isn't being captured, right?
Quote:
Texas A&M University oceanography professor John Kessler, just back from a 10-day research expedition near the BP Plc oil spill in the gulf, says methane gas levels in some areas are "astonishingly high."...Kessler's crew took measurements of both surface and deep water within a 5-mile (8 kilometer) radius of BP's broken wellhead..."There is an incredible amount of methane in there," Kessler told reporters in a telephone briefing...In some areas, the crew of 12 scientists found concentrations that were 100,000 times higher than normal...."We saw them approach a million times above background concentrations" in some areas, Kessler said.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2010 05:45 am
@electronicmail,
Methane is relatively easy to produce by the Fischer Tropsch or Bergius processes. THese are heat and Presuure related "cooking" processes that are like a lab esxperiment. CH3 can be formed in nature and is the source for the methyl hydrate "Ice" found in deep ocean depths. Metahne outgassing can be trapped in strat basins and move just like petroleum. Petroleum is as different from methane as sugar is from a choco;ate cake (petroleum ios a complex mass of hydrocarbons long chain, cyclic , as well as 1 and 2 C).
ALL petroleum has only been found in stratigraphic basins associated with deep and shallow marine and shallow saline deposits.
electronicmail
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2010 05:53 am
@farmerman,
Thanks, I was only wondering if all that methane couldn't be an even greater threat than the actual oil gusher. It's not being captured and flared, right? And it does eventually bring down oxygen concentrations in the ocean, so won't that kill off even more marine life even if the gusher is capped? Sorry I'm so ignorant, I appreciate your info very much.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jun, 2010 11:43 am
@electronicmail,
I'm wondering why we are not hearing more on the role of all that methane affecting climate. I'm not a fan of the idea that man made co2 is causing global warming, but methane is much stronger as a greenhouse gas than co2. Globally, this might not be a significant amount, but "might not" means about the same as "might".

Maybe I worry because I read John Barnes' fictional Mother of Storms.
 

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