Christians ruining my Easter

Seems my fears were more than justified.

Quote:

The national school chaplaincy code of conduct, which every chaplain must sign, stipulates they should not take advantage of their privileged position to try to convert children to their religious belief or denomination.

But on its website, the boss of Access Ministries outlines a strategy to "make students disciples."

Last month, Dr Evonne Paddison strenuously denied Access Ministries' religious teachers or chaplains sought to convert students in state schools.

"We instruct our people not to proselytise, we're not there to convert children," she said.

But that is not what she told a group of Anglican Evangelicals in 2008.

"In Australia, we have a God-given open door to children and young people," she said.

"Our Federal and State Governments allow us to take the Christian faith into schools.

"We need to go and make disciples."

1 Reply

One of the interesting elements of a2K is the surprisingly (to me) high incidence of mutually back scratching threads (like this one) among self proclaimed atheist or irreligious posters compared to those among believers of all types. What is the source of this readily observable difference and what does it suggest? What unfulfilled need does it satisfy?

Equally interesting are the frequent put downs of belief and believers that are found in these threads. Except in response to such things by religious interlopers on these threads, I have not observed the same phenomenon on the other side.

5 Replies

@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

I have not observed the same phenomenon on the other side.

pay attention.

You'll see it.

0 Replies

@georgeob1,

Within A2K, maybe your observation is right. But outside A2K, unbelievers are still in the minority and are often discriminated against. Outside A2K, believers scratch each others' backs all the time and do, indeed, rant against unbelievers. Maybe that sets the stage for unbelievers to be more assertive online? I do try to avoid attacking people and limit myself to attacking ideas. As for back-scratching, well, theists are just so easy to make jokes about. They belive, say and do such wacky ****, y'know? It'd be hard not to rib them about it...

0 Replies

@georgeob1,

George i think it would be more interesting to hear what you think of my post directly above yours.

Yes, there seems to be an above average number of non-religious on this site. Perhaps it appeals to logical, analytical and intelligent people more than other sites. That is not to say people cant be those things and also religious, but there's a skew that fits the observable membership. I'd prefer more intelligent religious debate myself but it doesnt happen very often. Here is the perfect example where you could have chosen to deal with my post, but instead changed tack entirely.

0 Replies

@Eorl,

Eorl wrote:

Seems my fears were more than justified.

Quote:
The national school chaplaincy code of conduct, which every chaplain must sign, stipulates they should not take advantage of their privileged position to try to convert children to their religious belief or denomination.

But on its website, the boss of Access Ministries outlines a strategy to "make students disciples."

Last month, Dr Evonne Paddison strenuously denied Access Ministries' religious teachers or chaplains sought to convert students in state schools.

"We instruct our people not to proselytise, we're not there to convert children," she said.

But that is not what she told a group of Anglican Evangelicals in 2008.

"In Australia, we have a God-given open door to children and young people," she said.

"Our Federal and State Governments allow us to take the Christian faith into schools.

"We need to go and make disciples."

Yep. There are now beginning to be major complaints about the chaplains....recently a couple of parents made their concerns public because they were so concerned about their little kid coming home sobbing that they were all going to hell because they weren't Christians.

I am also concerned that these people are put into a counselling role for which they have no qualifications. I don't know how many of these people we have ended up having to clean up after....

I would hope the scheme will fall apart soon because of these abuses. I think it was a major aberration to begin with.

The ruling tenets of the state education systems are "universal, free and secular."

0 Replies

@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

What is the source of this readily observable difference and what does it suggest?

A real life impregnated by an ostentatiously Christian culture that's more unpleasant to nonbelievers than to believers, and that nonbelievers are therefore more motivated to withdraw from online.

georgeob1 wrote:

What unfulfilled need does it satisfy?

The same back-scratching need that your annual Republican summer camp satisfies for you: Fellowship with like-minded people. (Of course, I never visited any of those camps. You guys may never take a cheap shot at Democrats there for all I know.)

0 Replies

@georgeob1,

Fallacy of the enumeration of favorable circumstances . . . you are simply ignoring any instances which do not conform to the viewpoint you wish to foster. If we're just going to go on the basis of anecdotal observations, then i'd say that the number of both religious and irreligious threads have declined since early days. My experience of self-described atheists here is that they are as likely to ignore a ranting anti-religious thread as they are a ranting religious thread.

0 Replies

In re the comments by Eorl and the Wabbit about religious types in schools: I was appalled to learn that there is such a thing as a chaplain allowed in any state-supported school. I guess, though, that if there is not specific prohibition on the establishment of religion, it makes some kind of sense.

However, it is in the nature of almost all religions to assert the superiority of each one's world view; and in the more aggressive religions, you are not only going to have pushing proselytizers, but very likely dishonesty and willful deceit practiced in the name of the religion. If one believes that one has the superior world view, but that one is a member of an oppressed minority, one will readily believe that any means is justified by the longed-for end.

0 Replies

Quote:

Tuesday, November 18, 2008
Dear God
I have a few questions I'd like answered:

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? (I'm pretty sure she's a virgin).

3. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

4. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

5. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Aren't there 'degrees' of abomination?

6. Lev.21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

7. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

8. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

9. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

Sincerely,
Yours Truly

2 Replies

@FBM,

Now, I find these questions quite pertinent..

1 Reply

@Francis,

I'd like to know the answers... Neutral

0 Replies

@FBM,

everything you have read comes from the old testament...my question to you is...does this not prove that there is NO salvation in the laws??? and a NEED for a savior and new covanent? exactly as it went down...and how then can some atheists say they are in agreement with SOME of the Bible (mainly ten commandments) but yet then say certain parts of the old testament are wrong. why then do you believe the ten commandments are correct? and does this not make you hypocritical yourselves? So if your hypocritical as WE ALL are...then what makes you think that Atheism or Agnostic beliefs are not flawed as well? if Christianity is, and any other belief, religion etc...what makes you believe Atheism is ALWAYS right?

3 Replies

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

also to sum it up different times...and different cultures...different ways of following the Lord. it is different now. and probably 2000 years from now if we are still around then there will be even more and different ways we acknowledge God...but IT WILL ALWAYS EXHIST! and if you claim to believe some of the Bible, notice in these ever changing laws it doesn't say to hate Atheists for the believers toward the non believers in our age etc...but preaches peace. notice how it doesn't say ones who find self contentness are the chosen ones etc...but by perservearing and faith you receive life. and yes there have been people who were struck down and killed instantly read king Herod when he didn't give glory to God and was struck down and eaten by worms...and further more whether you believe or not trying to slam others simply because they don't embrace your faith, beliefs...simply can NEVER be good. whether God exhists or doesn't...

0 Replies

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

First of all, atheism is not a belief, it is the lack of a belief. You're just trying to make it equivalent to your preferred superstition for sake of argument. However, leaving that aside, you reasoning here is badly flawed.

Matthew, Chapter Five, verses 17-19, in the King James version:

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

If there is no salvation in the law, why did your boy Jesus make a point of saying that there can be no salvation for anyone who does not do and teach the law? Like most Christians, you treat scripture like a menu in an oriental restaurant--pick one from column A and one from column B, but don't order anything which is not to your taste.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

and what then does your reasoning say he came here to do in saying he was fulfilling the laws? if it was not so that NONE could keep it and he came to free us from stumbling with the laws?? also he, (Jesus) says, anyone who believes in my name (Jesus) will by NO MEANS be put to shame...so yes I do follow what I DO and DON'T like...the DO's...the good parts, and the dont's. the parts I don't like....such as being smiten etc...which by the way often times happens whenever I am away from God and choose to do things which are not in good taste in God's eyes. which in Atheism would be finding self contenness and looking inward...

1 Reply

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

I am saying what the scripture patently says, that no one will be great in the kingdom of heaven unless he or she do and teach the law. The text is not ambiguous, and you are not entitled to change the meaning to suit your theological difficulties. The text clearly states that not one jot or tittle of the law shall be changed until time passes away. Do you allege that time has passed away? Do you allege that the law, embodied in the Pentateuch, no longer applies, just because it makes Christians uncomfortable to contemplate executing homosexuals, for example?

The text is unambiguous, and it clearly states that the law is in effect.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven....

And when do you believe all was fulfilled? it was when Jesus died, and was raised destroying death and sins...how do you know Jesus wasn't talking about that earth and Heaven. passing then and being reborn with his death and ressarection? therefore like i said, different times and cultures...etc

1 Reply

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

No, that is not what the text says. It does not say that the law will be fulfilled when your boy Jesus is killed. It cleary states that the law will be fulfilled when heaven and earth pass away. You're torturing the meaning of a clearly written unambiguous statement in order to avoid acknowledging that the law is in force. It doesn't say that no jot or tittle of the law will pass until heaven and earth pass or all be fulfilled, it clearly states that all will be fulfilled when heaven and earth pass. Vague remarks about different times and cultures is a cowardly dodge to avoid the responsibility of your scripture. You're lying, and you know it.

0 Replies

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Quote:

everything you have read comes from the old testament...

Be careful about jumping to conclusions (or maybe how you phrase your assumptions). I've read the whole Babble. I started my undergraduate studies with the intent of going on to seminary.

Quote:

my question to you is...does this not prove that there is NO salvation in the laws??? and a NEED for a savior and new covanent? exactly as it went down...

Why would I need to prove a negative? You're the one making the positive assertion that such a salvation - and the need for it - exists. If someone makes an assertion that something is true, it's up to that person to provide evidence. Without such evidence, the issue remains undecided. Which is my position. If one's assertion involves miraculous suspensions of the observable laws of nature, one's evidence needs to be all the more stronger. Either you have evidence or you don't. If you do, present it. If you don't, then what do you have? Just a preferred myth. Sorry, but I didn't invent the rules of logic. I just use them.

Quote:

and how then can some atheists say they are in agreement with SOME of the Bible (mainly ten commandments) but yet then say certain parts of the old testament are wrong.

Because the best way to sell a story (or a religion) is to mix a few kernels of truth in with whatever myth you're trying to sell. It happens every day. And not just with religion. That's what advertising is all about.

Quote:

why then do you believe the ten commandments are correct?

Where did I ever make such a statement? You seem to be mixing me up with someone else you've been arguing with. Please try to differentiate among those with whom you disagree. Thanks.

Quote:

and does this not make you hypocritical yourselves?

See above.

Quote:

So if your hypocritical as WE ALL are...

I'm torn between pointing out your logical break and commending you for admitting that you're a hypocrite. Decisions, decisions.

Quote:

then what makes you think that Atheism or Agnostic beliefs are not flawed as well?

Again, where did I make this claim. I don't think any metaphysical position is flawless, therefore I don't have any such beliefs. Google "Pyrrhonism".

Quote:

if Christianity is, and any other belief, religion etc...what makes you believe Atheism is ALWAYS right?

I don't think any metaphysical position is "ALWAYS" right. You may be right that, for some, atheism is a belief that there is no creator deity, supernatural afterlife, etc. But where have I claimed such a belief? Search my posts, please. Again, you seem to be confusing me with someone else.

My only claim is that those who so vehemently assert the existence of a supernatural creator deity are burdened with providing evidence for such. If you don't/can't, then I have no more reason to believe in your favorite deity than someone else's. Or none at all, since nobody has been able to produce any credible evidence for supernatural entities.

I have an invisible, fire-breathing dragon in my basement. Prove to me that I don't. (Thanks, Prof. Sagan.) You can't, because every test you propose, I come up with a reason why it won't work. It's up to me to prove that I have an invisible, fire-breathing dragon in my basement; it's not up to you to prove that I don't.

Peace.

1 Reply

Christians ruining my Easter

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know