spendius
 
  -1  
Mon 14 Apr, 2014 05:10 pm
@Germlat,
I ought to add that acceptance of OC can be as a result of NC. Fighting OC seems fuckwit territory to me.

How would you bring up the little monsters Germie?
Germlat
 
  0  
Mon 14 Apr, 2014 05:24 pm
@spendius,
Wow....have you had some alcohol? Explain OC, AC, and the little monsters!
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  0  
Mon 14 Apr, 2014 07:36 pm
@spendius,
Evaluative conditioning seems like a good match. Teach them to associate religiosity with child abuse, genocide, oppression, repression, magical thinking, etc.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3254108/
hingehead
 
  2  
Mon 14 Apr, 2014 07:57 pm
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BkhINiQIIAAmgmd.jpg
FBM
 
  1  
Mon 14 Apr, 2014 08:04 pm
@hingehead,
Laughing

I find it significant that this particular god would violate that Egyptian pharoh's free will by heardening his heart, but sits by twiddling his thumbs while a pedophile rapes a kid.
Krumple
 
  1  
Mon 14 Apr, 2014 08:11 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:

Laughing

I find it significant that this particular god would violate that Egyptian pharoh's free will by heardening his heart, but sits by twiddling his thumbs while a pedophile rapes a kid.


you come out with great one liners FBM..

I agree, thousands of starving children in Africa and die every day yet this god is more concerned about torturing Job or messing with pharaoh's mind to make him do things that he normally wouldn't have done. After all isn't that what hardening of the heart means? He is manipulating how the person's outlook or reasoning? So much for allowing free will. In just about every turn the stories of the bible are constant contradictions.
hingehead
 
  1  
Mon 14 Apr, 2014 08:19 pm
@Krumple,
Give god a break. He worked for seven days straight, then for a few thousand years burnt the occasional bush at someone, or drowned a planet, in an effort to educate us (by getting other people to interpret the bush burning, planet drowning stuff), then sent his son down to change the message a bit (OK, you don't have to be Jewish) and we nailed him to a tree. Again interpreted by others and translated to the nth chinese whisper - all to get us to understand the rules. 2000 years later it should be clear to us. Hasn't he done enough?
Krumple
 
  1  
Mon 14 Apr, 2014 09:54 pm
@hingehead,
hingehead wrote:

Give god a break. He worked for seven days straight, then for a few thousand years burnt the occasional bush at someone, or drowned a planet, in an effort to educate us (by getting other people to interpret the bush burning, planet drowning stuff), then sent his son down to change the message a bit (OK, you don't have to be Jewish) and we nailed him to a tree. Again interpreted by others and translated to the nth chinese whisper - all to get us to understand the rules. 2000 years later it should be clear to us. Hasn't he done enough?


I'm waiting for a little bit of god poop.

If a god exists, it knows what would convince me to become a believer. NOT someone else's opinion of what that would be, but god would know. Yet I am not convinced. So I am left with only a few reasons why this is the case. Either it doesn't care about trying to convince me. Or it is waiting for something else before it will convince me (which doesn't make sense). Or finally a god doesn't exist and that is why I haven't been convinced.
neologist
 
  1  
Mon 14 Apr, 2014 10:09 pm
@Krumple,
Krumple wrote:
If a god exists, it knows what would convince me to become a believer.
You want a personal demonstration from God? What makes you think you are that important?
hingehead
 
  1  
Mon 14 Apr, 2014 11:03 pm
@neologist,
If he's not important why did god make him?
Krumple
 
  1  
Mon 14 Apr, 2014 11:12 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Krumple wrote:
If a god exists, it knows what would convince me to become a believer.
You want a personal demonstration from God? What makes you think you are that important?


I don't think I am that important, however; if there is some sort of punishment or torment awaiting me for not being convinced then it should be important to provide for me the proper information to make a proper decision. After all if this god exists, this is how I was made right? So in other words if I was made this skeptical then by all means I was made for torture.

Going back to my analogy of god. It would be like this god creates a doll and the doll has with in it the ability to do good or evil. Good dolls get displayed but evil dolls go in the waste bin. Yet this doll maker can't stand if the doll does evil things so any doll that does evil things ends up in the trash. Yet when the doll maker is finished making this doll it knows with absolute certainty that this doll will do nothing but evil.

This means that the doll is going to end up in the trash bin. Why would the doll maker go through the process of making this doll knowing it will never do what the doll makers wishes? Destined for the trash bin. So what was the point in making the doll? It is absurd reasoning which theist never consider because it points out the fundamental flaw in creating a person destined for eternal torment.
anonymously99
 
  1  
Tue 15 Apr, 2014 12:52 am
@neologist,
Quote:
If a god exists, it knows what would convince me to become a believer.

The bible. Something going on in your life? Ask google what the bible says about it. Then sometime soon you will either decide to copy the bible onto paper with pencil and continuously glorify God or you will leave him out of your life.

Quote:
You want a personal demonstration from God? What makes you think you are that important?

God created man. Then woman from man.
Wilso
 
  1  
Tue 15 Apr, 2014 01:26 am
@anonymously99,
What a pity that we can't blame you on a god. Because **** it's hard to see you as the end result of 2 million years of evolution.
spendius
 
  1  
Tue 15 Apr, 2014 03:40 am
@FBM,
Quote:
Evaluative conditioning seems like a good match. Teach them to associate religiosity with child abuse, genocide, oppression, repression, magical thinking, etc.


You certainly have been programmed FB. Done to a turn.
FBM
 
  1  
Tue 15 Apr, 2014 04:07 am
@spendius,
So you're denying that the history of xtianity (and other religions) is fraught with examples of those things? Want me to start a list? Piece of cake. Someone else has already done a great deal of research on it.

http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm

The list goes on and on and on and on and on, and it's still not complete. It doesn't even include parents whose children have died because their beliefs make them refuse to let their child get medical care.

Quote:
Listed are only events that solely occurred on command of church authorities or were committed in the name of Christianity. (List incomplete)

Ancient Pagans

As soon as Christianity was legal (315), more and more pagan temples were destroyed by Christian mob. Pagan priests were killed.
Between 315 and 6th century thousands of pagan believers were slain.
Examples of destroyed Temples: the Sanctuary of Aesculap in Aegaea, the Temple of Aphrodite in Golgatha, Aphaka in Lebanon, the Heliopolis.
Christian priests such as Mark of Arethusa or Cyrill of Heliopolis were famous as "temple destroyer." [DA468]
Pagan services became punishable by death in 356. [DA468]
Christian Emperor Theodosius (408-450) even had children executed, because they had been playing with remains of pagan statues. [DA469]
According to Christian chroniclers he "followed meticulously all Christian teachings..."
In 6th century pagans were declared void of all rights.
In the early fourth century the philosopher Sopatros was executed on demand of Christian authorities. [DA466]
The world famous female philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria was torn to pieces with glass fragments by a hysterical Christian mob led by a Christian minister named Peter, in a church, in 415.
[DO19-25]
Mission

Emperor Karl (Charlemagne) in 782 had 4500 Saxons, unwilling to convert to Christianity, beheaded. [DO30]
Peasants of Steding (Germany) unwilling to pay suffocating church taxes: between 5,000 and 11,000 men, women and children slain 5/27/1234 near Altenesch/Germany. [WW223]
Battle of Belgrad 1456: 80,000 Turks slaughtered. [DO235]
15th century Poland: 1019 churches and 17987 villages plundered by Knights of the Order. Victims unknown. [DO30]
16th and 17th century Ireland. English troops "pacified and civilized" Ireland, where only Gaelic "wild Irish", "unreasonable beasts lived without any knowledge of God or good manners, in common of their goods, cattle, women, children and every other thing." One of the more successful soldiers, a certain Humphrey Gilbert, half-brother of Sir Walter Raleigh, ordered that "the heddes of all those (of what sort soever thei were) which were killed in the daie, should be cutte off from their bodies... and should bee laied on the ground by eche side of the waie", which effort to civilize the Irish indeed caused "greate terrour to the people when thei sawe the heddes of their dedde fathers, brothers, children, kinsfolke, and freinds on the grounde".
Tens of thousands of Gaelic Irish fell victim to the carnage. [SH99, 225]
Crusades (1095-1291)

First Crusade: 1095 on command of pope Urban II. [WW11-41]
Semlin/Hungary 6/24/96 thousands slain. Wieselburg/Hungary 6/12/96 thousands. [WW23]
9/9/96-9/26/96 Nikaia, Xerigordon (then turkish), thousands respectively. [WW25-27]
Until Jan 1098 a total of 40 capital cities and 200 castles conquered (number of slain unknown) [WW30]
after 6/3/98 Antiochia (then turkish) conquered, between 10,000 and 60,000 slain. 6/28/98 100,000 Turks (incl. women & children) killed. [WW32-35]
Here the Christians "did no other harm to the women found in [the enemy's] tents—save that they ran their lances through their bellies," according to Christian chronicler Fulcher of Chartres. [EC60]
Marra (Maraat an-numan) 12/11/98 thousands killed. Because of the subsequent famine "the already stinking corpses of the enemies were eaten by the Christians" said chronicler Albert Aquensis. [WW36]
Jerusalem conquered 7/15/1099 more than 60,000 victims (jewish, muslim, men, women, children). [WW37-40]
(In the words of one witness: "there [in front of Solomon's temple] was such a carnage that our people were wading ankle-deep in the blood of our foes", and after that "happily and crying for joy our people marched to our Saviour's tomb, to honour it and to pay off our debt of gratitude")
The Archbishop of Tyre, eye-witness, wrote: "It was impossible to look upon the vast numbers of the slain without horror; everywhere lay fragments of human bodies, and the very ground was covered with the blood of the slain. It was not alone the spectacle of headless bodies and mutilated limbs strewn in all directions that roused the horror of all who looked upon them. Still more dreadful was it to gaze upon the victors themselves, dripping with blood from head to foot, an ominous sight which brought terror to all who met them. It is reported that within the Temple enclosure alone about ten thousand infidels perished." [TG79]
Christian chronicler Eckehard of Aura noted that "even the following summer in all of palestine the air was polluted by the stench of decomposition". One million victims of the first crusade alone. [WW41]
Battle of Askalon, 8/12/1099. 200,000 heathens slaughtered "in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ". [WW45]
Fourth crusade: 4/12/1204 Constantinople sacked, number of victims unknown, numerous thousands, many of them Christian. [WW141-148]
Rest of Crusades in less detail: until the fall of Akkon 1291 probably 20 million victims (in the Holy land and Arab/Turkish areas alone). [WW224]
Note: All figures according to contemporary (Christian) chroniclers.

Heretics

Already in 385 C.E. the first Christians, the Spanish Priscillianus and six followers, were beheaded for heresy in Trier/Germany [DO26]
Manichaean heresy: a crypto-Christian sect decent enough to practice birth control (and thus not as irresponsible as faithful Catholics) was exterminated in huge campaigns all over the Roman empire between 372 C.E. and 444 C.E. Numerous thousands of victims. [NC]
Albigensians: the first Crusade intended to slay other Christians. [DO29]
The Albigensians...viewed themselves as good Christians, but would not accept roman Catholic rule, and taxes, and prohibition of birth control. [NC]
Begin of violence: on command of pope Innocent III (greatest single pre-nazi mass murderer) in 1209. Bezirs (today France) 7/22/1209 destroyed, all the inhabitants were slaughtered. Victims (including Catholics refusing to turn over their heretic neighbours and friends) 20,000-70,000. [WW179-181]
Carcassonne 8/15/1209, thousands slain. Other cities followed. [WW181]
subsequent 20 years of war until nearly all Cathars (probably half the population of the Languedoc, today southern France) were exterminated. [WW183]
After the war ended (1229) the Inquisition was founded 1232 to search and destroy surviving/hiding heretics. Last Cathars burned at the stake 1324. [WW183]
Estimated one million victims (cathar heresy alone), [WW183]
Other heresies: Waldensians, Paulikians, Runcarians, Josephites, and many others. Most of these sects exterminated, (I believe some Waldensians live today, yet they had to endure 600 years of persecution) I estimate at least hundred thousand victims (including the Spanish inquisition but excluding victims in the New World).
Spanish Inquisitor Torquemada alone allegedly responsible for 10,220 burnings. [DO28]
John Huss, a critic of papal infallibility and indulgences, was burned at the stake in 1415. [LI475-522]
University professor B.Hubmaier burned at the stake 1538 in Vienna. [DO59]
Giordano Bruno, Dominican monk, after having been incarcerated for seven years, was burned at the stake for heresy on the Campo dei Fiori (Rome) on 2/17/1600.
Witches

from the beginning of Christianity to 1484 probably more than several thousand.
in the era of witch hunting (1484-1750) according to modern scholars several hundred thousand (about 80% female) burned at the stake or hanged. [WV]
incomplete list of documented cases:
The Burning of Witches - A Chronicle of the Burning Times
Religious Wars

15th century: Crusades against Hussites, thousands slain. [DO30]
1538 pope Paul III declared Crusade against apostate England and all English as slaves of Church (fortunately had not power to go into action). [DO31]
1568 Spanish Inquisition Tribunal ordered extermination of 3 million rebels in (then Spanish) Netherlands. Thousands were actually slain. [DO31]
1572 In France about 20,000 Huguenots were killed on command of pope Pius V. Until 17th century 200,000 flee. [DO31]...


The list continues. For the full list, follow the link above.
FBM
 
  1  
Tue 15 Apr, 2014 04:09 am
@hingehead,
hingehead wrote:

If he's not important why did god make him?


Indeed. If god made the whole universe just for man (to praise him), then I think he would consider each person to be very special. Which is most likely why man has made so many gods. They want to feel special and protected.
spendius
 
  1  
Tue 15 Apr, 2014 04:42 am
@Krumple,
Quote:
I don't think I am that important, however; if there is some sort of punishment or torment awaiting me for not being convinced then it should be important to provide for me the proper information to make a proper decision.


I can't understand why you are worrying yourself about that stuff Krumpie. There is no torment awaiting you. You're getting worked up over nothing. When you cark it that's it. Once your assets have been sold up and shared out I mean. The condition is an exact replica of the one before you arrived.

Any ceremonies performed over your carcass are for business reasons only. A bio-degradable body-bag into a landfill is much the best solution for the remnants of an autopsy.

Malinowski discovered that the emotional pitch of the mourning is in direct proportion to how glad the relatives are to see the back of us. Anybody inheriting a million bucks has to do something dramatic to avoid jumping up and down with glee.

You're worrying over nothing. You don't seriously think that I would have shagged all the married women I have shagged if I thought it would result in an eternal corn on my big toe. They were alright but they weren't worth that.

A married atheist seems a ridiculous proposition to me.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Tue 15 Apr, 2014 04:56 am
@Wilso,
Quote:
What a pity that we can't blame you on a god. Because **** it's hard to see you as the end result of 2 million years of evolution.


Have you not considered, Wilso, how much evolution has rendered you and anon more or less identical?

A lady might say what you said there about another lady whose interior decor she considered unaesthetic.

What has caused this thread to collect so many Christianised atheists? The Fundies must be pissing their pants at how worked up they have got you all.

0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Tue 15 Apr, 2014 05:03 am
@FBM,
No FB. It is the history of the human race. It is based upon a simple maxim--"they are on our land and are shagging our women".

I hope you don't think I have any intention of reading that lot. Man's inhumanity to man is not a Christian monopoly. It is a function of settled agriculture so why don't you attack that? Get real.
spendius
 
  1  
Tue 15 Apr, 2014 06:23 am
@FBM,
Quote:
Indeed. If god made the whole universe just for man (to praise him), then I think he would consider each person to be very special.


That's a non sequitur from your perspective FB. How can you start a proposition, "if God made" anything when there is no God? And what you "think He would" be considering is a bit precious don't you think?

I bet you think theft is immoral. Why don't you ask an ex-mercenary about that. Or soldiers who over-ran France, Germany and Italy and have a "momento" of the occasion.

Before Christianity a city destroyed by an earthquake, such as the one in Haiti, was an opportunity for looters to come in, take what they wanted, and leave it to the winds.

And, as you point out, they had gods too. Looters and looted. Hence the gods of the looted were discredited and those of the looters more sanctified. Selected in or out according to evolution theory.

 

Related Topics

The tolerant atheist - Discussion by Tuna
Another day when there is no God - Discussion by edgarblythe
church of atheism - Discussion by daredevil
Can An Atheist Have A Soul? - Discussion by spiritual anrkst
THE MAGIC BUS COMES TO CANADA - Discussion by Setanta
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Atheism
  3. » Page 488
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.08 seconds on 04/25/2024 at 02:25:30