cicerone imposter wrote:
Here, Krumple, prove both; "spirit and god."
Or better still, prove their difference?
I'll repeat from that Wiki article,
Everett reported one incident where the Pirahã said that “Xigagaí, one of the beings that lives above the clouds, was standing on a beach yelling at us, telling us that he would kill us if we go into the jungle.”
How is that different from spirit or god?
For the second time.
"So the first thing I had to do was study and learn the language of the Pirahã. You can’t study the language of any group unless you also understand their culture and how the language comes out of their values and beliefs and the things that are most meaningful to them."
"So I gave them my testimony and I told them about my stepmother committing suicide. When I got done telling them, they all burst out laughing, and I said, “What are you laughing about?” I was really hurt. “Why are you laughing?” They said, “We don’t kill ourselves. You people kill yourselves? What is this?”"
"I realized they don’t have a word for worry, they don’t have any concept of depression, they don’t have any schizophrenia or a lot of the mental health problems,"
"I couldn’t wait to hear what the Pirahã creation myth was, so I asked them: “What was the world like long ago, before there were Pirahã? Who made the trees and who made the water?” The guy just looked at me and said, “What?” I repeated, “Who made the trees and who made the water?” He answered, “Nobody made the trees and nobody made the water; they’re just trees and they’re water.”"
"I said, “But you know, a long time ago, when there weren’t any trees.” He said, “You saw a time when there were no trees?” I said, “No, no, but didn’t your fathers . . .” He said, “No. “We don’t talk about that. No, the trees were always here and the water was always here, unless you know that they weren’t.”"
"So I thought, well, maybe this guy’s just some unusual person; I’ll find somebody else. And so I worked with person after person in the village, and no one could tell me about a creation myth. I finally found one guy who started telling me about the creation. He told me, “Long ago, there was a big spirit, and he is our heavenly spirit, he’s the up-high spirit. And he had another spirit that worked for him, sort of like his son. And he sent him off, and he told him to create things and live on earth.”"
"I said, “Hey, I’m in business now, I’m finding the right story.” But it turned out that this guy had been the translation helper for the previous missionaries and was telling me back what I wanted to hear."
"I told some anthropologists that I thought this is “the first group that I know of that doesn’t have a creation myth.” I think there are others. In fact, I think a lot of the things I said about the Pirahã will turn out to be in other groups as well."
"If you ask them about God, they don’t understand it, even when you translate it."
"For the Pirahã, here’s a very interesting view of the universe. I looked at the ground, and I got the word for ground, “bigí,” and I got the words for “The ground is wet,” the phrase, “Bigí xihoíi.” I looked up at the sky, and I asked the Pirahã, “What’s that called?” “Bigí.” Um. It sounded like the word for ground, and it turned out that it was the same word. And cloudy sky is “Bigí xihoíi,” just like wet ground."
"For the Pirahã, the universe is layered, and we happen to live in this biosphere that’s bounded by the sky and the ground, which are just both barriers, so they’re both called “bigí.” There could be entities above that, but they wouldn’t be supernatural entities; they would be entities like us but maybe with different characteristics of some sort. And there could be entities below that. But the Pirahã don’t worry much about that, because they live where they’re at now."
"In fact, I began to realize that not only do they not have creation myths, they have the simplest kinship system known. They just have a word for “generation above,” no gender distinction, “my generation,” no gender distinction (which is brother, sister, cousin, uncle, anything like that), and “generation below,” without any gender distinction, and then two words for biological son and biological daughter. And that’s it. That’s the Pirahã kinship system."
Okay so I'll stop torturing you with statements about the Piraha for a bit to say. As you can tell if you actually read these statements that their language and concepts are far different than western charged definitions. See what you want to do, is you see the word spirit and you take your western version of it and assume that they mean the same thing.
No, this is because the closest they can get to translating what the Piraha meant was the word "spirit" but this word is so charged in the west it can have many different meanings. You need to look and examine what they really mean when they talk about these things.
You haven't done that. You haven't taken the time to understand how their system works and just how difficult it is to translate their meanings into english. You just do the typical thing and jump to conclusions. Like I said before you went from spirit, to gods, to them worshiping gods. It is a leap of logic that is ridiculous. If you had actually taken the time, probably a actual five minutes of reading you would have learned this. But you didn't care to because you are an idiot.
"Why wouldn’t they have color words or number words? Because those generalize and range across things that go beyond immediacy of experience. They don’t have creation myths because that’s certainly something you haven’t experienced. Why would you talk about something if you can’t experience? And so they have suffixes that go on the end of their verbs that tell you whether they saw it or they overheard it or they inferred it. Evidence is very important to them; they’re sort of like the original Show Me State [Missouri]. Or as one philosopher said, the ultimate empiricists."
Now here is the damning evidence that shows christianity and religion is evil.
"But as I started working with them, really paying attention to this, I realized: What do I bring to them? What is the message that I’m supposed to be giving to these people? That they’re lost? They’re not going to feel lost. I mean, my evangelism teacher in bible school said, “You’ve got to get them lost before you can get them saved.”
That’s why David Livingstone, when he went to Africa as a missionary, said that the first step of missions is to destroy the local culture. Destroy it through capitalism, because as you create a desire for Western goods, they will realize how worthless they are and they will listen to the missionary about their god. That is an effective strategy, by the way."