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Has England really become this ridiculous?

 
 
Reply Fri 13 Nov, 2009 08:13 am
Quote:
Ex-soldier faces jail for handing in gun

A former soldier who handed a discarded shotgun in to police faces at least five years imprisonment for "doing his duty".

Paul Clarke, 27, was found guilty of possessing a firearm at Guildford Crown Court on Tuesday " after finding the gun and handing it personally to police officers on March 20 this year.

The jury took 20 minutes to make its conviction, and Mr Clarke now faces a minimum of five year's imprisonment for handing in the weapon.

In a statement read out in court, Mr Clarke said: "I didn't think for one moment I would be arrested.

"I thought it was my duty to hand it in and get it off the streets."

The court heard how Mr Clarke was on the balcony of his home in Nailsworth Crescent, Merstham, when he spotted a black bin liner at the bottom of his garden.

In his statement, he said: "I took it indoors and inside found a shorn-off shotgun and two cartridges.

"I didn't know what to do, so the next morning I rang the Chief Superintendent, Adrian Harper, and asked if I could pop in and see him.

"At the police station, I took the gun out of the bag and placed it on the table so it was pointing towards the wall."

Mr Clarke was then arrested immediately for possession of a firearm at Reigate police station, and taken to the cells.

Defending, Lionel Blackman told the jury Mr Clarke's garden backs onto a public green field, and his garden wall is significantly lower than his neighbours.

He also showed jurors a leaflet printed by Surrey Police explaining to citizens what they can do at a police station, which included "reporting found firearms".

Quizzing officer Garnett, who arrested Mr Clarke, he asked: "Are you aware of any notice issued by Surrey Police, or any publicity given to, telling citizens that if they find a firearm the only thing they should do is not touch it, report it by telephone, and not take it into a police station?"

To which, Mr Garnett replied: "No, I don't believe so."

Prosecuting, Brian Stalk, explained to the jury that possession of a firearm was a "strict liability" charge " therefore Mr Clarke's allegedly honest intent was irrelevant.

Just by having the gun in his possession he was guilty of the charge, and has no defence in law against it, he added.

But despite this, Mr Blackman urged members of the jury to consider how they would respond if they found a gun.

He said: "This is a very small case with a very big principle.

"You could be walking to a railway station on the way to work and find a firearm in a bin in the park.

"Is it unreasonable to take it to the police station?"

Paul Clarke will be sentenced on December 11.

Judge Christopher Critchlow said: "This is an unusual case, but in law there is no dispute that Mr Clarke has no defence to this charge.

"The intention of anybody possessing a firearm is irrelevant."


I really, really, really, really hope that America never gets like that.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 20 • Views: 10,491 • Replies: 157

 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 13 Nov, 2009 08:32 am
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

Quote:
Ex-soldier faces jail for handing in gun

A former soldier who handed a discarded shotgun in to police faces at least five years imprisonment for "doing his duty".

Paul Clarke, 27, was found guilty of possessing a firearm at Guildford Crown Court on Tuesday " after finding the gun and handing it personally to police officers on March 20 this year.

The jury took 20 minutes to make its conviction, and Mr Clarke now faces a minimum of five year's imprisonment for handing in the weapon.

In a statement read out in court, Mr Clarke said: "I didn't think for one moment I would be arrested.

"I thought it was my duty to hand it in and get it off the streets."

The court heard how Mr Clarke was on the balcony of his home in Nailsworth Crescent, Merstham, when he spotted a black bin liner at the bottom of his garden.

In his statement, he said: "I took it indoors and inside found a shorn-off shotgun and two cartridges.

"I didn't know what to do, so the next morning I rang the Chief Superintendent, Adrian Harper, and asked if I could pop in and see him.

"At the police station, I took the gun out of the bag and placed it on the table so it was pointing towards the wall."

Mr Clarke was then arrested immediately for possession of a firearm at Reigate police station, and taken to the cells.

Defending, Lionel Blackman told the jury Mr Clarke's garden backs onto a public green field, and his garden wall is significantly lower than his neighbours.

He also showed jurors a leaflet printed by Surrey Police explaining to citizens what they can do at a police station, which included "reporting found firearms".

Quizzing officer Garnett, who arrested Mr Clarke, he asked: "Are you aware of any notice issued by Surrey Police, or any publicity given to, telling citizens that if they find a firearm the only thing they should do is not touch it, report it by telephone, and not take it into a police station?"

To which, Mr Garnett replied: "No, I don't believe so."

Prosecuting, Brian Stalk, explained to the jury that possession of a firearm was a "strict liability" charge " therefore Mr Clarke's allegedly honest intent was irrelevant.

Just by having the gun in his possession he was guilty of the charge, and has no defence in law against it, he added.

But despite this, Mr Blackman urged members of the jury to consider how they would respond if they found a gun.

He said: "This is a very small case with a very big principle.

"You could be walking to a railway station on the way to work and find a firearm in a bin in the park.

"Is it unreasonable to take it to the police station?"

Paul Clarke will be sentenced on December 11.

Judge Christopher Critchlow said: "This is an unusual case, but in law there is no dispute that Mr Clarke has no defence to this charge.

"The intention of anybody possessing a firearm is irrelevant."


I really, really, really, really hope that America never gets like that.
If he had just kept it,
he 'd not have even sustained the expense of hiring defense lawyers.
While he is hanging around inside a prison for the next several years
he can consider that he co-laborated with the government.

He was guilty of COMPLICITY in gun control.

He deserves every minute in prison that he will get. He shoud be ashamed.
During all of those years in prison, he will know,
close up and personal that it is very rong to co-operate in gun control.

The penalty for obaying gun control laws, more usually, is DEATH with no appeal,
in the discretion of a violent predator.





David
rosborne979
 
  2  
Reply Fri 13 Nov, 2009 09:41 am
@McGentrix,
The story sounds suspicious to me. Maybe some aspect of it isn't being reported correctly? I find it hard to believe they would arrest someone for turning in a "found" weapon.
engineer
 
  4  
Reply Fri 13 Nov, 2009 09:54 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I don't know that I'd keep a weapon that was likely used to commit a crime.
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Nov, 2009 10:00 am
@rosborne979,
Yes, it seems to be more to it..

I've been reading here and it appears to be a lot more controversial..
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Fri 13 Nov, 2009 10:05 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

I don't know that I'd keep a weapon that was likely used to commit a crime.
What is the REASON for not keeping it?
Presumably, u will answer that it can be identified to that crime,
to which I 'd respond that it was said to be a SHOTGUN.
Therefore, it is smoothbore and leaves no striations on its pellets.
Accordingly, no pellets can be identified to any particular gun.





David
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Nov, 2009 10:08 am
The source of the story is "This is Surrey Today," a web site which advertises four newspapers in Surrey, and seems innocuous enough. (Surrey is one of the "home counties," meaning the counties immediately surrounding London. It is adjacent to Windsor, and Windsor Castle; and Runnymede--where King John was obliged to sign Magna Carta--is in the northern part of the county.)

However, i was unable to find this story either at the Times or at BBC, so if the story is legitimate (and i have no good reason to suppose otherwise), it has not spurred sufficient national interest to appear in England's newspaper of record, or in a story by the national broadcasting corporation.
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Nov, 2009 10:12 am
@Setanta,
i've got some suspicions about this myself, i think there's more to this story
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Nov, 2009 10:13 am
@Francis,
Francis wrote:

Yes, it seems to be more to it..

I've been reading here and it appears to be a lot more controversial..
Francis, having checked your link,
I did not see any additional information, controversial or not.

Will u indicate what your point is ?





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Nov, 2009 10:17 am
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:

The story sounds suspicious to me. Maybe some aspect of it isn't being reported correctly?
I find it hard to believe they would arrest someone for turning in a "found" weapon.
For many years, it was the gun control law in New York
that anyone who did the same thing (giving a gun to police) woud be arrested,
unless he did it in June.





David
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Nov, 2009 10:19 am
It is interesting that the discussion board which Francis has linked contains a comment that the "This is . . ." portion of "This is Surrey Today" means that the site is owned and maintained by the Daily Mail. Even more interesting is that the Daily Mail itself is not carrying the story. The Daily Mail is known for it's conservative bias, and it's constant criticism of the BBC as being leftist.
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Nov, 2009 10:22 am
this bit is odd

"The court heard how Mr Clarke was on the balcony of his home in Nailsworth Crescent, Merstham, when he spotted a black bin liner at the bottom of his garden.

In his statement, he said: "I took it indoors and inside found a shorn-off shotgun and two cartridges.

"I didn't know what to do, so the next morning I rang the Chief Superintendent, Adrian Harper, and asked if I could pop in and see him."


i live in a rural area, every so often i'll find a garbage bag that might have blown from a neighbours yard, or even bags that people have thrown from their car, (this happened when a near by municipality was experiencing a garbage strike) i would never bring a garbage bag from outside into my house, i might look at was inside of it, but certainly outside and would most likely just put it in my garbage bin

had i found this gun in a garbage bag, i would have immediately phond the police and informed of the situation, i would not have phoned and said, oh can i pop in and see you

if there's nothing more to this story than it appears, the dude certainly displayed some bad judgment

Mame
 
  2  
Reply Fri 13 Nov, 2009 10:28 am
@djjd62,
I agree. There are too many questions:

1. I wonder why he said he didn't know what to do - he's a soldier, is he not? And 27, not a child. Surely he must have some common sense.

2. And why wait till the next day? And why call the Chief Supt? Wouldn't you just call 911?

3. And why did he touch it?

I'd have looked in the bag, called the cops, and waited for them to show up.

I wonder if he's 'known to the police'.
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Nov, 2009 11:31 am
All I can say is this is a mighty strange story that makes little sense on the face of it. I wonder what's really going on.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Fri 13 Nov, 2009 11:51 am
@Merry Andrew,
Merry Andrew wrote:

All I can say is this is a mighty strange story that makes little sense on the face of it.
Gun control makes no sense.
It is a suicidal philosophy, supporting the dominance of predatory evil
over helpless victims.
djjd62
 
  4  
Reply Fri 13 Nov, 2009 11:53 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Gun control makes no sense.


only to some
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Nov, 2009 11:57 am
@djjd62,
djjd62 wrote:

this bit is odd

"The court heard how Mr Clarke was on the balcony of his home in Nailsworth Crescent, Merstham, when he spotted a black bin liner at the bottom of his garden.

In his statement, he said: "I took it indoors and inside found a shorn-off shotgun and two cartridges.

"I didn't know what to do, so the next morning I rang the Chief Superintendent, Adrian Harper, and asked if I could pop in and see him."


i live in a rural area, every so often i'll find a garbage bag that might have blown from a neighbours yard, or even bags that people have thrown from their car, (this happened when a near by municipality was experiencing a garbage strike) i would never bring a garbage bag from outside into my house, i might look at was inside of it, but certainly outside and would most likely just put it in my garbage bin

had i found this gun in a garbage bag, i would have immediately phond the police and informed of the situation, i would not have phoned and said, oh can i pop in and see you

if there's nothing more to this story than it appears, the dude certainly displayed some bad judgment

What judgment exactly did u have in mind ?
What was bad about it, in your opinion (as a matter of curiosity)?
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  3  
Reply Fri 13 Nov, 2009 11:58 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Your constantly bang on about is not going make it true..

I've not seen, in my whole life, a man needing a gun for self-defense, in my usual European environment...
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Nov, 2009 11:58 am
It was probably the biggest crime of the last 50 years and everybody wanted to get in the newspaper story about it.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Nov, 2009 12:00 pm
@djjd62,
djjd62 wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:
Gun control makes no sense.


Quote:
only to some
Well, that 's true; it has kept many violent criminals safe & uninjured by their victims,
so thay can remain on-the-job.
0 Replies
 
 

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