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When do you think philosophically?

 
 
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Reply Wed 30 Sep, 2009 08:05 am
fresco wrote:

pq,

Gurdjieff argued that we spend most of our time in "waking sleep" even when we assume we are "conscious". He said that "cosmic forces" conspire against us and keep us asleep for their own ends !

Well..even if we don't beat a path to Gurdjieff's door (which many intellectuals actually did) we can say that he observed that "philosophical thought" was often an illusive commodity. Indeed, Maslow's celebrated "hierarchy of needs" implies that such activity comes right at the end the list of requirements for "everyday life", and it may be that we must either reject such a "life" for a monastic existence, or as Westerners, have the luxury of having most of our "lower needs" fulfilled by or maerial wealth, in order to indulge in "philosophy".


The last bit of your post is pretty ironic when we contrast it against the general picture of western society we gain by listening to it's largest voice (the media).

I understand the 'waking sleep' state from the courses you advised for me, Fresco.
(I would say I am rarely out of this state, apart from perhaps when I am actually asleep).
This is the question i voiced that didn't really get answered (perhaps because it is a question from a 'little me' not an 'enlightened I')-
What state do you think most western philosophers were in when they wrote most of their great works? Envisage Nietzsche in his little rented room writing whatever work- I'm sure he would have been in a 'waking sleep' state rather than anything 'greater.'
Therefore, what is the purpose of the 'higher' state?
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Reply Wed 30 Sep, 2009 09:27 am
I have little knowledge of Nietsche, but his interpreter Heidegger's concept of "Dasein" was one in which "self" was able to contemplate its own "existence", (but not from a transcendental vantage point). I therefore think that Gurdjieff would have approved of Heidegger's existentialist leanings and he might have applauded Heidegger's attempts to establish a specialized linguistic form as akin to his own. Note that Heidegger asigned "mainstream philosophy" to the category "chatter" which is similar to Gurdjieff's "idle talk". (Gurdjieff would have rejected Niestchze's "will" as illusion).

The problem with my analysis is that both Gurdjieff's and Heidegger's systems were prescriptive and in Heidegger's case (combined with Nietzche's "will") unfortunately gave succour to National Socialism. Even Socrates had anti-democratic views consistent with his adage about " a life examined" . So it may be that "philosophy" might point towards "self-dissipation" rather than "self-actualization" and if that is the case, it would not be "self" which is actually engaged in such an activity. The "higher state" is the the one which transcends "self". To ask its "purpose" is to miscomprehend its nature.

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Reply Thu 1 Oct, 2009 03:53 pm
your talk of the "higher state", which transcends the "self"; is this similar to Heidegger's notion of "engagement", of being involved in a task in the world, when we forget ourselves as "existing", and we lose ourselves in the task at hand?
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Reply Thu 1 Oct, 2009 05:21 pm
ep
No. The concept of "higher state" transcends Heidegger's "temporality" in which Dasein operates. It is synonymous with "holistic consciousness" which is observer rather than participator.
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Reply Sat 21 Nov, 2009 01:05 pm
what is it to think "philosophically"?
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