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What it's Like to Teach Black Students?

 
 
Reply Fri 10 Jul, 2009 10:17 am
Quote:
Tuesday, June 16, 2009
"What it's Like to Teach Black Students?"

Despite almost 50 years of large and accelerating efforts to improve the school achievement of African-American students, the gap between their achievement and that of whites and Asians remains about as large as ever.

Yet proposals for what to do about it seem basically unchanged: Spend more money and divert existing money to reduce class size and train teachers better, have more students take a rigorous college prep curriculum, work on improving self-esteem, eliminate ability-grouped classes, use cooperative-learning techniques, and reassign top teachers to schools with a high percentage of African-American students.

I have become especially doubtful about whether those approaches will work better in the future than they have in the past when I read this report from the trenches. Usually, we hear only from politicians and education leaders (who also are politicians) spouting lofty rhetoric. Occasionally, we hear of a promising program, but which never turns out to be scalable. Or we see a Hollywood movie about some amazing teacher.

We rarely, however, hear from a more typical teacher who, day to day, teaches low-achieving African-American kids. So it was with interest that I read this truly depressing account from a teacher. I've edited out a couple of unnecessarily snarky sentences, which are irrelevant to the issue. Nonetheless the essay is long yet, I believe, worth your time.)

The essay does make me feel uncomfortable because while it presents an eye-opening report from the trenches, it is just one person's report and one that feels more extreme than what I experienced when I taught in a heavily African-American school. Also, while the author made passing mention that not all Blacks behaved as he described, those comments felt, to me, too parenthetical.. Of course, many black students are high-achieving and motivated.

But I decided to post this teacher's essay on my blog for the following reason. The much-needed women's movement was triggered not just by measured academic tomes but also by passionate statements that, even though often excessively male-bashing, shone powerful light on women's plight. Similarly, I believe we need to hear passionate (even if deeply frustrated and overly drawn) reports from the trenches on this issue. For decades, we've certainly heard plenty of the lofty rhetoric from education leaders and academics yet the achievement gap remains and little new is being proposed. I hope that my posting this will make a small contribution toward a more full-dimensioned view of the problem and thus in turn, toward identifying more promising approaches and not be used to justify racist behavior toward African-Americans. That is the last thing I want.

After you read this essay, I hope you'll post your thoughts on what if any implications you believe this has for what we should do differently to better serve the needs of African-American kids, their non-African-American classmates, and in turn, the nation as a whole.


What is it Like to Teach Black Students?
by Christopher Jackson

Until recently I taught at a predominantly black high school in a southeastern state. The mainstream press gives a hint of what conditions are like in black schools, but only a hint. Expressions journalists use like “chaotic” or “poor learning environment” or “lack of discipline” do not capture what really happens. There is nothing like the day-to-day experience of teaching black children and that is what I will try to convey.

Most whites simply do not know what black people are like in large numbers, and the first encounter can be a shock. One of the most immediately striking things about my students was that they were loud. They had little conception of ordinary decorum. It was not unusual for five blacks to be screaming at me at once. Instead of calming down and waiting for a lull in the din to make their point—something that occurs to even the dimmest white students—blacks just tried to yell over each other. It did no good to try to quiet them, and white women were particularly inept at trying. I sat in on one woman’s class as she begged the children to pipe down. They just yelled louder so their voices would carry over hers.

Many of my black students would repeat themselves over and over again—just louder. It was as if they suffered from Tourette syndrome. They seemed to have no conception of waiting for an appropriate time to say something. They would get ideas in their heads and simply had to shout them out. I might be leading a discussion on government and suddenly be interrupted: “We gotta get more Democrats! Clinton, she good!” The student may seem content with that outburst but two minutes later, he would suddenly start yelling again: “Clinton good!”

Anyone who is around young blacks will probably get a constant diet of rap music.Blacks often make up their own jingles, and it was not uncommon for 15 black boys to swagger into a classroom,bouncing their shoulders and jiving back. They were yelling back and forth, rapping 15 different sets of words in the same harsh, rasping dialect.
The words were almost invariably a childish form of boasting: “Who got dem shine rim, who got dem shine shoe, who got dem shine grill (gold and silver dental caps)?” The amateur rapper usually ends with a claim—in the crudest terms imaginable—that all womankind is sexually devoted to him. For whatever reason, my students would often groan instead of saying a particular word, as in, “She suck dat aaahhhh (think of a long grinding groan), she f**k dat aaaahhhh, she lick dat aaaahhh.”

So many black girls dance in the hall, in the classroom, on the chairs, next to the chairs, under the chairs, everywhere. Once I took a call on my cell phone and had to step outside of class. I was away about two minutes but when I got back the black girls had lined up at the front of the classroom and were convulsing to the delight of the boys.

Many black people, especially black women, are enormously fat. Some are so fat I had to arrange special seating to accommodate their bulk. I am not saying there are no fat white students—there are—but it is a matter of numbers and attitudes. Many black girls simply do not care that they are fat. There are plenty of white anorexics, but I have never met or heard of a black anorexic.

“Black women be big Mr. Jackson,” my students would explain. “Is it okay in the black community to be a little overweight?” I ask. Two obese black girls in front of my desk begin to dance, “You know dem boys lak juicy fruit, Mr. Jackson.” “Juicy” is a colorful black expression for the buttocks.

Blacks, on average, are the most directly critical people I have ever met: “Dat shirt stupid. Yo’ kid a bastard. Yo’ lips big.” Unlike whites, who tread gingerly around the subject of race, they can be brutally to the point. Once I needed to send a student to the office to deliver a message. I asked for volunteers, and suddenly you would think my classroom was a bastion of civic engagement. Thirty dark hands shot into the air. My students loved to leave the classroom and slack off, even if just for a few minutes, away from the eye of white authority. I picked a light-skinned boy to deliver the message. One very black student was indignant: “You pick da half-breed.” And immediately other blacks take up the cry, and half a dozen mouths are screaming, “He half-breed.”

For decades, the country has been lamenting the poor academic performance of blacks and there is much to lament. There is no question, however, that many blacks come to school with a serious handicap that is not their fault. At home they have learned a dialect that is almost a different language. Blacks not only mispronounce words; their grammar is often wrong. When a black wants to ask, “Where is the bathroom?” he may actually say “Whar da badroom be?” Grammatically, this is the equivalent of “Where the bathroom is?” And this is the way they speak in high school. Students write the way they speak, so this is the language that shows up in written assignments.

It is true that some whites face a similar handicap. They speak with what I would call a “country” accent that is hard to reproduce but results in sentences such as “I’m gonna gemme a Coke.” Some of these country whites had to learn correct pronunciation and usage. The difference is that most whites overcome this handicap and learn to speak correctly; many blacks do not.

Most of the blacks I taught simply had no interest in academic subjects. I taught history, and students would often say they didn’t want to do an assignment or they didn’t like history because it was all about white people. Of course, this was “diversity” history, in which every cowboy’s black cook got a special page on how he contributed to winning the West, but black children still found it inadequate. So I would throw up my hands and assign them a project on a real, historical black person. My favorite was Marcus Garvey. They had never heard of him, and I would tell them to research him, but they never did. They didn’t care and they didn’t want to do any work.

Anyone who teaches blacks soon learns that they have a completely different view of government from whites. Once I decided to fill 25 minutes by having students write about one thing the government should do to improve America. I gave this question to three classes totaling about 100 students, approximately 80 of whom were black. My few white students came back with generally “conservative” ideas. “We need to cut off people who don’t work,” was the most common suggestion. Nearly every black gave a variation on the theme of “We need more government services.”

My students had only the vaguest notion of who pays for government services. For them, it was like a magical piggy bank that never goes empty. One black girl was exhorting the class on the need for more social services and I kept trying to explain that people, real live people, are taxed for the money to pay for those services. “Yeah, it come
from whites,” she finally said. “They stingy anyway.”

“Many black people make over $50,000 dollars a year and you would also be taking away from your own people,” I said. She had an answer to that: “Dey half breed.” The class agreed. I let the subject drop.

Many black girls are perfectly happy to be welfare queens. On career day, one girl explained to the class that she was going to have lots of children and get fat checks from the government. No one in the class seemed to have any objection to this career choice.

Surprising attitudes can come out in class discussion. We were talking about the crimes committed in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, and I brought up the rape of a young girl in the bathroom of the Superdome. A majority of my students believed this was a horrible crime but a few took it lightly. One black boy spoke up without raising his hand: “Dat no big deal. They thought they is gonna die so they figured they have some fun. Dey jus’ wanna have a fun time; you know what I’m sayin’?” A few black heads nodded in agreement.

My department head once asked all the teachers to get a response from all students to the following question: “Do you think it is okay to break the law if it will benefit you greatly?” By then, I had been teaching for a while and was not surprised by answers that left a young, liberal, white woman colleague aghast. “Yeah” was the favorite answer. As one student explained, “Get dat green.”

There is a level of conformity among blacks that whites would find hard to believe. They like one kind of music: rap. They will vote for one political party: Democrat. They dance one way, speak one way, are loud the same way, and fail their exams in the same way. Of course, there are exceptions but they are rare.

Whites are different. Some like country music, others heavy metal, some prefer pop, and still others, God forbid, enjoy rap music. They have different associations, groups, almost ideologies. There are jocks, nerds, preppies, and hunters. Blacks are all—well—black, and they are quick to let other blacks know when they deviate from the norm.

One might object that there are important group differences among blacks that a white man simply cannot detect. I have done my best to find them, but so far as I can tell, they dress the same, talk the same, think the same. Certainly, they form rival groups, but the groups are not different in any discernible way. There simply are no groups of blacks that are as distinctly different from each other as white “nerds,” “hunters,” or “Goths,” for example.

How the world looks to blacks. One point on which all blacks agree is that everything is “racis’.” This is one message of liberalism they have absorbed completely. Did you do your homework? “Na, homework racis’.” Why did you get an F on the test? “Test racis’.”

I was trying to teach a unit on British philosophers and the first thing the students noticed about Bentham, Hobbes, and Locke was “Dey all white! Where da black philosopher a’?” I tried to explain there were no blacks in eighteenth century Britain. You can probably guess what they said to that: “Dat racis’!” One student accused me of deliberately failing him on a test because I didn’t like black people.

“Do you think I really hate black people?”
“Yeah.”
“Have I done anything to make you feel this way? How do you know?”
“You just do.”
“Why do you say that?”

He just smirked, looked out the window, and sucked air through his teeth. Perhaps this was a regional thing, but the blacks often sucked air through their teeth as a wordless expression of disdain or hostility.

My students were sometimes unable to see the world except through the lens of their own blackness. I had a class that was host to a German exchange student. One day he put on a Power Point presentation with famous German landmarks as well as his school and family. From time to time during the presentation, blacks would scream, “Where da black folk?!” The exasperated German tried several times to explain that there were no black people where he lived in Germany. The students did not believe him. I told them Germany is in Europe, where white people are from, and Africa is where black people are from. They insisted that the German student was racist, and deliberately refused to associate with blacks.

Blacks are keenly interested in their own racial characteristics. I have learned, for example, that some blacks have “good hair.” Good hair is black parlance for black-white hybrid hair. Apparently, it is less kinky, easier to style, and considered more attractive.

Blacks are also proud of light skin. Imagine two black students shouting insults across the room. One is dark but slim; the other light and obese. The dark one begins the exchange: “You fat, Ridario!” Ridario smiles, doesn’t deign to look at his detractor, shakes his head like a wobbling top, and says, “You wish you light skinned.” They could go on like this, repeating the same insults over and over.

My black students had nothing but contempt for Hispanic immigrants. They would vent their feelings so crudely that our department strongly advised us never to talk about immigration in class in case the principal or some outsider might overhear.

Whites were “racis’,” of course, but they thought of us at least as Americans. Not the Mexicans. Blacks have a certain, not necessarily hostile understanding of white people. They know how whites act, and it is clear they believe whites are smart and are good at organizing things. At the same time, they probably suspect whites are just putting on an act when they talk about equality, as if it is all a sham that makes it easier for whites to control blacks. Blacks want a bigger piece of the American pie. I’m convinced that if it were up to them they would give whites a considerably smaller piece than whites get now, but they would give us something. They wouldn’t give Mexicans anything.

What about black boys and white girls? No one is supposed to notice this or talk about it but it is glaringly obvious: Black boys are obsessed with white girls. I’ve witnessed the following drama countless times. A black boy saunters up to a white girl. The cocky black dances around her, not really in a menacing way. It’s more a shuffle than a threat. As he bobs and shuffles he asks, “When you gonna go wit’ me?”

There are two kinds of reply. The more confident white girl gets annoyed, looks away from the black and shouts, “I don’t wanna go out with you!” The more demure girl will look at her feet and mumble a polite excuse but ultimately say no.

There is only one response from the black boy: “You racis’.” Many girls—all too many—actually feel guilty because they do not want to date blacks. Most white girls at my school stayed away from blacks, but a few, particularly the ones who were addicted to drugs, fell in with them.

There is something else that is striking about blacks. They seem to have no sense of romance, of falling in love. What brings men and women together is sex, pure and simple, and there is a crude openness about this. There are many degenerate whites, of course, but some of my white students were capable of real devotion and tenderness, emotions that seemed absent from blacks—especially the boys.

Black schools are violent and the few whites who are too poor to escape are caught in the storm. The violence is astonishing, not so much that it happens, but the atmosphere in which it happens. Blacks can be smiling, seemingly perfectly content with what they are doing, having a good time, and then, suddenly start fighting. It’s uncanny. Not long ago, I was walking through the halls and a group of black boys were walking in front of me. All of a sudden they started fighting with another group in the hallway.

Blacks are extraordinarily quick to take offense. Once I accidentally scuffed a black boy’s white sneaker with my shoe. He immediately rubbed his body up against mine and threatened to attack me. I stepped outside the class and had a security guard escort the student to the office. It was unusual for students to threaten teachers physically this way, but among themselves, they were quick to fight for similar reasons.

The real victims are the unfortunate whites caught in this. They are always in danger and their educations suffer. White weaklings are particularly susceptible, but mostly to petty violence. They may be slapped or get a couple of kicks when they are trying to open a bottom locker. Typically, blacks save the hard, serious violence for each other.

There was a lot of promiscuous sex among my students and this led to violence. Black girls were constantly fighting over black boys. It was not uncommon to see two girls literally ripping each other’s hair out with a police officer in the middle trying to break up the fight. The black boy they were fighting over would be standing by with a smile, enjoying the show he had created. For reasons I cannot explain, boys seldom fought over girls.

Pregnancy was common among the blacks, though many black girls were so fat I could not tell the difference. I don’t know how many girls got abortions, but when they had the baby they usually stayed in school and had their own parents look after the child. The school did not offer daycare.

Aside from the police officers constantly on patrol, a sure sign that you My black students had nothing but contempt for Hispanics. Whites were “racis’,” of course, but they thought of us at least as Americans.

Security guards are everywhere in black schools—we had one on every hall. They also sat in on unruly classes and escorted students to the office. They were unarmed, but worked closely with the three city police officers who were constantly on duty.

There was a lot of drug-dealing at my school. This was a good way to make a fair amount of money but it also gave boys power over girls who wanted drugs. An addicted girl— black or white—became the plaything of anyone who could get her drugs. One of my students was a notorious drug dealer. Everyone knew it. He was 19 years old and in eleventh grade. Once he got a score of three out of 100 on a test. He had been locked up four times since he was 13.

One day, I asked him, “Why do you come to school?” He wouldn’t answer. He just looked out the window, smiled, and sucked air through his teeth. His friend Yidarius ventured an explanation: “He get dat green and get dem females.” “What is the green?” I asked. “Money or dope?” “Both,” said Yidarius with a smile.

A very fat black interrupted from across the room: “We get dat lunch,” Mr. Jackson. “We gotta get dat lunch and brickfuss.” He means the free breakfast and lunch poor students get every day. “Nigga, we know’d you be lovin’ brickfuss!” shouts another student.

Some readers may believe that I have drawn a cruel caricature of black students. After all, according to official figures some 85 percent of them graduate. It would be instructive to know how many of those scraped by with barely a C- record. They go from grade to grade and they finally get their diplomas because there is so much pressure on teachers to push them through. It saves money to move them along, the school looks good, and the teachers look good. Many of these children should have been failed, but the system would crack under their weight if they were all held back.

How did my experiences make me feel about blacks? Ultimately, I lost sympathy for them. In so many ways they seem to make their own beds. There they were in an integrationist’s fantasy—in the same classroom with white students, eating the same lunch, using the same bathrooms, listening to the same teachers—and yet the blacks fail while the whites pass.

One tragic outcome among whites who have been teaching for too long is that it can engender something close to hatred. One teacher I knew gave up fast food—not for health reasons but because where he lived most fast-food workers were black. He had enough of blacks on the job. This was an extreme example but years of frustration can take their toll. Many of my white colleagues with any experience were well on their way to that state of mind.

There is an unutterable secret among teachers: Almost all realize that blacks do not respond to traditional white instruction. Does that put the lie to environmentalism? Not at all. It is what brings about endless, pointless innovation that is supposed to bring blacks up to the white level. The solution is more diversity—or put more generally, the solution is change.

Change is an almost holy word in education, and you can fail a million times as long as you keep changing. That is why liberals keep revamping the curriculum and the way it is taught. For example, teachers are told that blacks need handson instruction and more group work.

Teachers are told that blacks are more vocal and do not learn through reading and lectures. The implication is that they have certain traits that lend themselves to a different kind of teaching.

Whites have learned a certain way for centuries but it just doesn’t work with blacks. Of course, this implies racial differences but if pressed, most liberal teachers would say different racial learning styles come from some indefinable cultural characteristic unique to blacks. Therefore, schools must change, America must change. But into what? How do you turn quantum physics into hands-on instruction or group work? No one knows, but we must keep changing until we find something that works.

Public school has certainly changed since anyone reading this was a student. I have a friend who teaches elementary school, and she tells me that every week the students get a new diversity lesson, shipped in fresh from some bureaucrat’s office in Washington or the state capital. She showed me the materials for one week: a large poster, about the size of a forty-two inch flat-screen television. It shows an utterly diverse group—I mean diverse: handicapped, Muslim, Jewish, effeminate, poor, rich, brown, slightly brown, yellow, etc.—sitting at a table, smiling gaily, accomplishing some undefined task. The poster comes with a sheet of questions the teacher is supposed to ask. One might be: “These kids sure look different, but they look happy. Can you tell me which one in the picture is an American?” Some eight-year-old, mired in ignorance, will point to a white child like himself. “That one.”
The teacher reads from the answer, conveniently printed along with the question. “No, Billy, all these children are Americans. They are just as American as you.”

The children get a snack, and the poster goes up on the wall until another one comes a week later. This is what happens at predominately white, middle-class, elementary schools everywhere. Elementary school teachers love All of the Colors of the Race, by award-winning children’s poet Arnold Adoff.

These are some of the lines they read to the children: “Mama is chocolate … Daddy is vanilla … Me (sic) is better … It is a new color. It is a new flavor. For love. Sometimes blackness seems too black for me, and whiteness is too sickly pale; and I wish every one were golden. Remember: long ago before people moved and migrated, and mixed and matched … there was one people: one color, one race. The colors are flowing from what was before me to what will be after. All the colors.”

Teaching as a career It may come as a surprise after what I have written, but my experiences have given me a deep appreciation for teaching as a career. It offers a stable, middle-class life but comes with the capacity to make real differences in the lives of children. In our modern, atomized world children often have very little communication with adults—especially, or even, with their parents—so there is potential for a real transaction between pupil and teacher, disciple and master.

A rewarding relationship can grow up between an exceptional, interested student and his teacher. I have stayed in my classroom with a group of students discussing ideas and playing chess until the janitor kicked us out. I was the old gentleman, imparting my history, culture, personal loves and triumphs, defeats and failures to young kinsman. Sometimes I fancied myself Tyrtaeus, the Spartan poet, who counseled the youth to honor and loyalty. I never had this kind intimacy with a black student, and I know of no other white teacher who did.

Teaching can be fun. For a certain kind of person it is exhilarating to map out battles on chalkboards, and teach heroism. It is rewarding to challenge liberal prejudices, to leave my mark on these children, but what I aimed for with my white students I could never achieve with the blacks.

There is a kind of child whose look can melt your heart: some working-class castaway, in and out of foster homes, often abused, who is nevertheless almost an angel. Your heart melts for these children, this refuse of the modern world.

Many white students possess a certain innocence; their cheeks still blush. Try as I might, I could not get the blacks to care one bit about Beethoven or Sherman’s march to the sea, or Tyrtaeus, or Oswald Spengler, or even liberals like John Rawls, or their own history. They cared about nothing I tried to teach them. When this goes on year after year it chokes the soul out of a teacher, destroys his pathos, and sends him guiltily searching for The Bell Curve on the Internet.

Blacks break down the intimacy that can be achieved in the classroom, and leave you convinced that that intimacy is really a form of kinship. Without intending to, they destroy what is most beautiful—whether it be your belief in human equality, your daughter’s innocence, or even the state of the hallway.

Just last year I read on the bathroom stall the words “F**k Whitey.” Not two feet away, on the same stall, was a small swastika.

The National Council for the Social Studies, the leading authority on social science education in the United States, urges teachers to inculcate such values as equality of opportunity, individual property rights, and a democratic form of government. Even if teachers could inculcate this milquetoast ideology into whites, liberalism is doomed because so many non-whites are not receptive to education of any kind beyond the merest basics.

It is impossible to get them to care about such abstractions as property rights or democratic citizenship. They do not see much further than the fact that you live in a big house and “we in da pro-jek.” Of course, there are a few loutish whites who will never think past their next meal and a few sensitive blacks for whom anything is possible, but no society takes on the characteristics of its exceptions.

Once I asked my students, “What do you think of the Constitution?” “It white,” one slouching black rang out. The class began to laugh. And I caught myself laughing along with them, laughing while Pompeii’s volcano simmers, while the barbarians swell around the Palatine, while the country I love, and the job I love, and the community I love become dimmer by the day.

I read a book by an expatriate Rhodesian who visited Zimbabwe not too many years ago. Traveling with a companion, she stopped at a store along the highway. A black man materialized next to her car window. “Job, boss, (I) work good, boss,” he pleaded. “You give job.” “What happened to your old job?” the expatriate white asked. The black man replied in the straightforward manner of his race: “We drove out the whites. No more jobs. You give job.”

At some level, my students understand the same thing. One day I asked the bored, black faces staring back at me. “What would happen if all the white people in America disappeared tomorrow?” “We screwed,” a young, pitch-black boy screamed back. The rest of the blacks laughed.

I have had children tell me to my face as they struggled with an assignment. “I cain’t do dis,” Mr. Jackson. “I black.”

The point is that human beings are not always rational. It is in the black man’s interest to have whites in Zimbabwe but he drives them out and starves. Most whites do not think black Americans could ever do anything so irrational. They see blacks on television smiling, fighting evil whites, embodying white values. But the real black is not on television, and you pull your purse closer when you see him, and you lock the car doors when he swaggers by with his pants hanging down almost to his knees.

For those of you with children, better a smaller house in a white district than a fancy one near a black school.

I have been in parent-teacher conferences that broke my heart: the child pleading with his parents to take him out of school; the parents convinced their child’s fears are groundless. If you love your child, show her you care— not by giving her fancy vacations or a car, but making her innocent years safe and happy. Give her the gift of a not heavily black school.

Mr. Jackson now teaches at a majority white school.

http://martynemko.blogspot.com/29/06/white-teacher-speaks-out-what-is-it.http
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Type: Discussion • Score: 9 • Views: 1,237 • Replies: 27

 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Jul, 2009 10:26 am
walks like a racist

quacks like a racist...

till the author goes into full nutjob mode, one could substitute poor for black and be in Kansas City, Kansas.


I tutored several black students in reading when I was too young to know I was not supposed to help them out. (they learn just like you do when you teach them how...)
my mother found out, and quashed the program.
View Profile mismi
 
  4  
Reply Fri 10 Jul, 2009 10:27 am
That was yucky.
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  2  
Reply Fri 10 Jul, 2009 12:14 pm
I taught for about 12 years in a detention facility in Massachusetts. I'd say 80 to 85 percent of my students were African-American. The rest were mostly Latino with the occasional Cambodian or Laotian thrown in. A white boy was rare. My exerience? Ain't nobody as dumb as those white crackers who get their asses in trouble. And, no, the Asians are no more bright than anyone else. What is it like to teach black students? Exactly the same as it is to teach anyone else. Some of the brightest, most brilliant teen-agers I have ever known anywhere under any circumstances were ghetto-bred.

Oh. Just for the record, since these things seem to be important to Pamela Rosa: I'm about as white a white man as you'll find. Further disclaimer: I am not Jewish, as this, too, seems to be of some importance to this racist bitch.

View Profile George
 
  2  
Reply Fri 10 Jul, 2009 12:30 pm
Just the attitude I'd expect from one of those Latvians.
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  1  
Reply Fri 10 Jul, 2009 12:54 pm
Pamela.
Fuck off.
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  1  
Reply Fri 10 Jul, 2009 02:01 pm
racists in the God fearing Mid West? Impossible.
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View Profile Sglass
 
  2  
Reply Sat 11 Jul, 2009 01:38 am
Pamela Rosa my godson is black. He graduated from Harvard University with honors. He is a champion foil man. He is presently working for a hedge fund in NYC to get some on hands experience before he goes on to law school. He is on a first name basis with Obama. He is being encouraged to enter politics.

His father was the first black man to graduate from Yale Law School, and was a Tuskegee Airman His father was in the diplomatic corp.

My great great uncle was John Brown the abolitionist. He paid the highest price for the freedom of the black man in America and other minorities to follow.

I suggest you get your head out of your butt and take a look around. You might learn something.

Your racist twattle reeks of stupidity that I cannot forgive.
]
Seaglass
View Profile msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jul, 2009 02:54 am
Pamela, are race "issues" your only interest in life? Seriously, I can't recall much/anything at all (?) you've posted to this forum that doesn't denigrate black people. Come on, I'm sure you must have other interests in life - hobbies? books? Family? Garden? Films? etc. etc. etc ... Anything else, for god's sake! Give us a break, hey?
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View Profile McTag
 
  2  
Reply Sat 11 Jul, 2009 08:04 am

How was that racist?

Seems the author was writing from bitter personal experience. Was any of it wrong? Not sympathetic, clearly. But this was from a teacher who was trying to make a difference.
View Profile aidan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jul, 2009 08:23 am
And I'm scared to even say it, but I will say that I found some of the author's observations to be true.

I think the more interesting question is not always what does one observe, but why one might be observing what they're observing.

I think the author may have been trying to make a difference, but from Pamela Rosa's track record, I'd say she has a definite agenda - and as interested as I am to know why - I've given up trying to figure it out.
But I think that we do these black students a disservice when we look at this post as more of her racist bullshit and thus not true. Because then things that need to change will not be addressed and will never change.

I have also observed that black students do act differently than white students in the public schools I've worked in in the US. Some of it is cultural. Some of it is also aggressively and consciously non-cooperative behavior toward a white establishment that has never accepted or given them the respect as a people that they feel they deserve.
It's a power struggle. And as long as there are adversarial feelings - us/them sort of interactions - that power struggle is going to be waged - and since there are more of them (students who don't feel empowered in their lives) than there are of teachers in the classroom - if the teacher is unable to convince them that s/he's on their side and not opposed to them - that's how it's going to play out- they'll take the opposite side and make his or her school day a living hell.
That's the only power they have at this point.

Interestingly enough - although my two children (who are what would be called half breeds by the black kids in this article) have expressed to me that there is much less of that delineation of behavior by race in the classrooms here in England than there is in the US.
I think it's because England doesn't have the history of separation and humiliation of the races that is a fact of history in the US, so relationships and interactions start on a more even keel.
View Profile BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Sat 11 Jul, 2009 06:03 pm
Seems the author was writing from bitter personal experience. Was any of it wrong? Not sympathetic, clearly. But this was from a teacher who was trying to make a difference
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How was that racist!!!! You got to be kidding me all blacks kids in this school are this way or that way they do this and they do that and they all yell and on and on and on.

If the person who wrote that is a real teacher in a real school I would be very surprise indeed. I would say that the chance of that being true is .000001 percent.

In my 61 years on this old planet no group of people can be narrow down by the skin color to that degree or anywhere close to that degree.

Yes there are problems in poor black schools and there are difference in culture and family structure that is not helpful in some regards for achieving success in school but that essay is almost a cartoon from a KKK manual.

This is someone who have travel from south of the 1950s in a time machine taking his hood with him.

0 Replies
 
View Profile msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jul, 2009 06:10 pm
McTag, I'm seeing this thread in relation to most of Pamela's other threads. Same general theme. This one, I'll admit, is relatively mild in tone. Others have been highly offensive. I just wondered why she has such a fixation on the same theme, that's all. Does she ever think about anything else?
View Profile djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jul, 2009 06:22 pm
apparently not
0 Replies
 
View Profile BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jul, 2009 06:27 pm
I have also observed that black students do act differently than white students in the public schools I've worked in in the US. Some of it is cultural. Some of it is also aggressively and consciously non-cooperative behavior toward a white establishment that has never accepted or given them the respect as a people that they feel they deserve
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Have you taken note that we have a black president of the US who is the intelligent superior by far to our last white president?

That blacks had been achieving great things and that race/skin color have little to do with the ability to achieve and middle class blacks kids are no different from middle class white kids in school or anywhere else for that matter.

Let see my two step daughters are of mixed races and one is the holder of a Master degree with a nice career with state government and the other is a real state agent earning a few hundred thousands a year even in this economic however they did not match their parent level as both their mother white and father black had PHDS.

Yes there are problems in schools that serve the lower economic black community that need to be address but that essay is a 100 percent pure racist nonsense and as such is not helpful and not mean to be helpful.
View Profile aidan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jul, 2009 12:46 am
I said:
Quote:
I have also observed that black students do act differently than white students in the public schools I've worked in in the US. Some of it is cultural. Some of it is also aggressively and consciously non-cooperative behavior toward a white establishment that has never accepted or given them the respect as a people that they feel they deserve


Bill said:
Quote:
Have you taken note that we have a black president of the US who is the intelligent superior by far to our last white president?


Yes, I have noted that we have a black president who is very intelligent. But that has absolutely nothing to do with what I said- I made no mention of intelligence. I spoke about behavior. And the behaviors of many black children in public school is very different than that of children of other ethnicities.
I made mention that I think there is a reason for this - apart and aside from black cultural influences and intrinsic racial differences- although to ignore those is counter productive. That is why I don't think this article should be totally ignored. Especially by people who do not work in the schools and may be unaware of what the reality is.

Because as much as it is true that there are black children who speak in very loud voices and at inappropriate times in the classroom (which I have to say, I HAVE observed to be true sometimes)-some teachers learn to use it and work with it, and respect the students enough to try to help them corral their energy, redirect it, and turn it into something that can be used positively and to their benefit in terms of their learning.
I myself have always enjoyed the energy and spirit that students who are willing to respond passionately and vocally bring to a classroom but there are teachers who are negative and hateful towards black children who exacerbate the situation, making each school day into an adversarial exercise of one-up-manship where no one learns anything except that they are not appreciated and wanted where they are (student AND teacher).
And so the frustrations and nonproductivity continue - ad infititum- this shit has been going on for years.

Quote:
Yes there are problems in schools that serve the lower economic black community that need to be address but that essay is a 100 percent pure racist nonsense and as such is not helpful and not mean to be helpful.


I'm glad this guy wrote this article and that Pamela Rosa posted it. It's informative. It gives insight into WHY exactly there may be such learning and/or achievement gaps between black and white students.

It doesn't matter if it's meant to be helpful or not - we can use it to our advantage. I think this racist claptrap needs to come out into the open to be addressed in order to find a solution- just as is true of any problem.

And anyway - how much worse is this than those racist fliers you were defending over on the other thread. You said those guys had the right to publish what they wrote - this guy does too.
For myself - I'd rather see it straight out - then we can know what we're really dealing with.
I think it's more harmful and dangerous when it's hidden and insidious.

Quote:
Let see my two step daughters are of mixed races and one is the holder of a Master degree with a nice career with state government and the other is a real state agent earning a few hundred thousands a year even in this economic however they did not match their parent level as both their mother white and father black had PHDS.

That's wonderful. My interracial son is at least as smart as his dad and I put together and my interracial daughter is SO creative - she'll probably be an artist.
Please make note of the fact that I don't believe black people are stupid or fat- I don't. But I do believe that the publication of this essay can be enlightening and thus helpful.
View Profile aidan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jul, 2009 01:20 am
I said:
Quote:
And anyway - how much worse is this than those racist fliers you were defending over on the other thread.


I didn't mean to write that you were defending the subject matter of the fliers - I meant to say that you were defending their authors' rights to write and publish them.
0 Replies
 
View Profile BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jul, 2009 03:26 am
Aidan once more this is a cartoon of the view of blacks students by the KKK this have no connection to the real world so why are you happy that it was posted?

And I was part of a mixed high school in my education career and saw none of the comments of this nut/racist being true of my fellow black students. Second I had never seen such a group characterize in connection to any of my black co-workers either.

Please also take note that I am not and never had defend racist flyers I had defend however the right to publish such nonsense and not be place in prison for four plus years and that is not the same thing!

If you can not see the different in defending someone rights to place nonsense out into the public square to be challenge as I am challenging this silly and racist posting and not being place in prison for so doing then your own education is sadly lacking.
0 Replies
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jul, 2009 03:31 am
Quote:
Pamela Rosa my godson is black. He graduated from Harvard University with honors. He is a champion foil man. He is presently working for a hedge fund in NYC to get some on hands experience before he goes on to law school. He is on a first name basis with Obama. He is being encouraged to enter politics.


Seems obvious enough to me that the article is not about your godson...

Or about George Washington Carver, Booker T. Washington, Percy Julien, Alexander Pushkin, Scott Joplin, or any of the blacks leading normal lives in America today.

I posted this thing a few days ago with what I thought was a more appropriate title, i.e. "Children of the Voting Block" a few days ago and nobody seemed to notice.

They say religion is the study of the way things ought to be and economics is the study of the way things ARE. If you assume that to be right, then the only way the kinds of attitudes and behavior which the article describes could exist is if having large numbers of people living in such a state is VALUABLE to somebody, and it seems obvious enough to me who the somebody is, i.e. the demoKKKrat party.

Here's the real 64,000 USD question: What's going to happen to all of these people whose only salable skill is voting, after conservatives and pubbies finally give up on saving the system and take their marbles and go home, and America splits up into two or more countries as the Russian foreign ministry has predicted? I mean, they're not going to be useful to anybody for the purpose of voting for demoKKKrat A or against demoKKKrat B.....

View Profile BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jul, 2009 04:00 am
And you are assuming this silly posting have any connection to the real universe?

I do not know about you but I was in a high school with a racial mixed of thirty plus percent of black students in the 1960s and had classmates and lab partners in advance science courses who was black and never saw this overwhelming short comings of black students as a group.

Sorry there are too many of us who had been around large number of blacks all our lives and know this picture is pure racist nonsense.
 

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