Obama..... not religious?

Oh man, your analogy sucks! Get outta here!

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It's not very exact.

My point is -- religion and sexuality kind of fall outside of the rational parts of our brains. Not everything can or should be rational.

You believe or you don't. You're attracted or you're not.

If your religion or your sexuality connect with my nose (er), it matters to me. Otherwise it doesn't.

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Thomas wrote:

If the god of the Bible showed up on your wife's couch, she most certainly wouldn't worship him like fundamentalist Christians do. She most certainly wouldn't take his flickers of charm, his occasional moments of clarity, as a starting point for something modern humans could selectively worship. On the contrary: I bet she would immediately send him to a closed mental institution. And she would be right!

Nobody here is arguing a fundamentalist viewpoint, though. Are you trying to invent something against which to argue?

Thomas wrote:

You don't like the citations I gave so far? Fine. What kind of evidence do you require for the claims I'm making?

What claims are you making? That the god depicted in the OT is jealous, cantankerous, and ill-mannered? I've already agreed with you on that point.

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Quote:

If your religion or your sexuality connect with my nose (er), ...

I think I'll have to add religion and sexuality to my list of things that work very differently in America.

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By the way -- since I'm a pinko commie liberal do-gooder activist type, and not just because I have a big nose -- I define "my nose" rather broadly. If I see either one (religion, sexuality) doing bad things to anyone else's nose, I consider that a problem, too. Treat your neighbor's nose as your own -- doesn't it say that in the bible?

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Sozobe...the only guess I can make at this time is that you have decided not to consider anything I say to be worthwhile or reasonable...and apparently you have decided that anything I say is motivated by a malicious nature...meant to be mean-spirited and boorish.

Sorry you feel that way.

But everyone who shares opinions has to realize that some people will react that way...and sometimes, if you are sharing opinions that are contentious, many people will.

If every person on A2K came to the conclusion that I am a mean-spirited boor, with an over-inflated ego who preens and struts and refuses to listen to be reasonable...

...then every person in A2K would be wrong!

You are wrong. Very wrong. The arguments I have presented here have been logical, cogent, and persuasive.

I'll continue my arguments as I have been...and will simply acknowledge that for reasons important to you, you will simply not give what I have to say the consideration it deserves.

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That's a nice little evasion. Smile

I don't think you're mean-spirited. Obnoxious, yes, and happily so. Boorish, probably.

I'm giving what you have to say plenty of consideration. I simply disagree.

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Frank Apisa wrote:

I'm not really sure I "have issues with Christianity." I prefer to think I have issues with hypocrisy.

Can't argue with "I'm not really sure" and "I prefer".

I'm guessing that (in)ability to make a choice, really take a stance, and shout your conviction to the world is what makes you who you are.

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DrewDad wrote:

Nobody here is arguing a fundamentalist viewpoint, though. Are you trying to invent something against which to argue?

No. I'm just saying that it doesn't matter what kind of Christian you are. Whether you're fundamentalist or liberal, you wouldn't worship the god of the bible the way you worship him under your preferred interpretation of the book.

Quote:

What claims are you making? That the god depicted in the OT is jealous, cantankerous, and ill-mannered? I've already agreed with you on that point.

... and that the Bible as a whole is an implausible candidate for a moral compass. Even for a first try at one.

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Thomas wrote:

... and that the Bible as a whole is an implausible candidate for a moral compass. Even for a first try at one.

And I'll state again: The Bible is not a handbook. (Meaning: the Bible is not the moral compass. Parables require interpretation; it's not as simple as saying "the Bible told me so.")

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DrewDad wrote:

And I'll state again: The Bible is not a handbook.

Then what is it?

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Whoops. I didn't get my edit done in time.

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btw, he is religious or not, it doesnt really matters as long as he is performing, keeping us safe, and helping us in hthis difficult time of recession, everything is fine

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In another thread I tried to illustrate how this “Christian” religion does smash into my nose in a way that is unacceptable.

The other thread has to do with my mother-in-law, who is now in a hospital bed dying...a slow morphine drip easing, but not ending the pain she is feeling.

If my cat or my neighbors dog were in similar shape...neither of us would hesitate for a moment to end the suffering by ending the pet's life in a humane way. In fact, if either of us didn't...the other would be all over his back for being such a inhumane, uncaring person.

But my mother-in-law, like my uncle before her and my father before him, have to go through this degrading, pain filled, revulsion-filled death agony. Some, my uncle, with physical strength enough to last for over two weeks before dying; others, like my father (and hopefully my mother-in-law) going in a just few days.

But the reason the congress cannot even consider legislation aimed at allowing for a more dignified, merciful death for people beyond hope...is because of the objections of people who think this scumbag of a god would be offended if we did something like that.

And the reason we have to have discussions about homosexuals at all...is 99% because of the biblically taught sensitivities of the scumbag god.

Nose meet fist; fist, this is nose.

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DrewDad wrote:

It's not as simple as saying "the Bible told me so."

Which is not to say some people don't look for simplistic answers in it. But saying "some people look for simplistic answers in the Bible, which makes the Bible a bunch of bullshit" is an ad hominem fallacy.

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DrewDad wrote:

Parables require interpretation; it's not as simple as saying "the Bible told me so."

Is that the answer to the question I asked after your edit? "The Bible is a bunch of parables?"

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Quote:

Can't argue with "I'm not really sure" and "I prefer".

I'm guessing that (in)ability to make a choice, really take a stance, and shout your conviction to the world is what makes you who you are.

Yup...a fucking jerkoff like you would actually think I "can't take a stance" or that I would not share of it.

You are pathetic.

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Frank Apisa wrote:

But the reason the congress cannot even consider legislation aimed at allowing for a more dignified, merciful death for people beyond hope...is because of the objections of people who think this scumbag of a god would be offended if we did something like that.

That's the very point Obama is making in the speech referenced in the original post. Religious reasons are not a good enough foundation for laws which affect us all.

But I don't think that medical ethics are based upon a religious foundation.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Nose meet fist; fist, this is nose.

Er... This might be you mother-in-law's nose, but it ain't yours.

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